Homeless to have tents banned

[dubsie]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/suella-braverman-says-rough-sleeping-is-lifestyle-choice

No one wants to see people sleeping in tents in cities but what are homeless people meant to do. Given the choice I think I'd choose a tent over a shop door way or a park bench...and I don't think many people choose being homeless ....not a lifestyle choice for most people.

I think this is more the fact that people like this minister can't stand the sight of homeless people, it reminds them that their decisions have consequences

Was that the guy in Hull?

I'm suretiure you can point us to how the policy will improve shelters and support.

I have said that I don’t believe that Braverman’s problem definition or policy solution is likely to be the answer.

It IS possible to agree to some extent with someone. Without wholeheartedly embracing their approach.

Could you elaborate on this please? I know of two care-experienced teenagers who will be eligible for support throughout further/higher education. I assumed this applied to all care leavers.

What it boils down to is this:
shit government = devastating rise in homelessness
half decent government = fewer homeless people

The only 'Lifestyle Choice' I'm seeing here is this despicable Tory government's.

No one denies it's easy to get long term homeless people indoors. It takes enormous skill from outreach workers and other homeless worker professionals. It takes multiple resources and money.

I’ve personally voted for several different political parties, most recently Conservative, so I’m probably one of your “bile spewing” Tories.

I volunteered for several years in our local homeless shelter, and also on Foodbank collections. I’ve done formal training for both, delivered by compassionate charities who recognise that the situation is not black and white.

One of the most important things which is drilled in to us during the training and refreshers is to tell everyone who will listen NOT to give money or food directly to street beggars; this enables them to not engage with the very services which might help them, and is often their lifestyle choice - given the choice of a hostel place and access to services, or a night on the street (in a good spot - they fight over these) earning a significant amount of money, they choose the latter. Encourage people to volunteer or donate to shelters and charities, but don’t give directly - you may just be funding the local drug dealer.

I’ve personally sat with several young street beggars locally and phoned support services to get them heard - once an ambulance for a young woman with severe mental health issues who lived in supported accommodation but regularly went back to the street because it’s what she knew, and once a young man not much older than my own son who was so grateful that someone helped him, because he didn’t know how to help himself.

I also work hard and trained for a better position so I can pay taxes in to the system. What I don’t do is demand that other people pay more in to the system to fund my pet preferences - if you want more tax money to go to particular services, work and pay tax so there’s more money to fund services.

I work for a local authority and we receive management updates on the current situation and how we’re addressing it.

Sorry if I don’t fit your neat little Tory box.

I don't live in London. Where I do live there's hordes of homeless in the city centre and they're mostly English.

I think the rough sleepers from abroad is more of a London-specific problem. Homelessness is a problem in every town and city centre though.

Is that in the policy or just making it more uncomfortable. There are some charities that will support people who haven't made it in the UK for whatever reason and want to return home but don't have the funds but they have limited scope. Do you think someone like that would rather sleep on the streets in November than stump up for a Ryanair flight if they had the cash? Usually these are people who have been done over by UK employers and landlords and are unaware of their legal rights.

Prevention is better than cure. That's what it comes down to. That's where the Tories fall short because they hate spending money on anything that doesn't make a profit. They cut local authorities to the bone and services that can prevent homelessness and destitution in the first place fall by the wayside and all the social problems that arise from that.

If it wasn't for charity workers think how much worse it would be. If it wasn't for food banks and shelters etc it would be more like the walking dead already.

Yes, you’re right, but if the number of immigrants continually coming weren’t there (ie we don’t allow immigrants to come unless they have the ability to work and support themselves) then there would be more money available to support those already here.

But Bravermans approach is akin to tryingto pretend the problem will go away if you ignore the causes abd are nasty enough.
No one wants to see people sleeping rough, begging etc. But just shouting into the wind about the symptoms will do nothing to solve the problem anymore than taking paracetamol will do for a headache caused by a tumour

Over 40% of street homeless in London are immigrants - do you think the Tories should address the problem of immigration? 🙄

People who give money and other items to street beggars are a huge part of the problem. They think they're helping though, just feel sorry for them, or are intimidated.

This needs to be drummed into people in messaging to not give money to these people. You're not helping anyone and in most cases may as well just give the money directly to organised crime (or the local drug dealer) yourself.

Because for some, it might be the last straw that finally pushes them to engage with support services, rather than being enabled.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/perfect-storm-behind-liverpools-soaring-28039864

https://theconversation.com/homelessness-in-england-has-reached-record-levels-heres-why-and-how-to-fix-it-210582

I answered to this in a previous post as that's not the case in most cities and towns. Homelessness is everywhere, not just London.

However, the reality is there's far too many people living in London/the South East/England in general and the housing policy has been fucked since Thatcher sold off the council housing and we stopped building them.

We need high migration to support our ageing population, we're overpopulated, underhoused and people are living longer, so it's a loop.

Allowing and accepting sleeping in tents on the street does not help.

It’s like the situation described above where people giving to beggars makes the giver feel better about things but ultimately makes things worse. For society and the individuals affected. Regardless whether those individuals (currently) agree on that point.

Having a clear boundary in society that tents on the street is entirely unacceptable is actually positive and humane. Ensuring that anyone sleeping on the streets is moved on to support services - and that there is somewhere to move people to - is important.

Do I believe that braverman wants to do more than demonise the rough sleepers? No. I don’t.

But it doesn’t mean that I can’t agree that drawing a clear line that tent cities will not be tolerated is important. Just that the policy and practical response to ensuring this boundary is enforced is likely to not be whatever nonsense braverman is likely to propose.

Just like it’s possible to agree that there are multiple problems related to immigration and asylum claims in the UK (and globally) but to very much feel that Braverman’s ‘ship them off to Rwanda’ approach is most definitely not the solution.

Yes, Labour reduced rough sleeping in part by getting people engaged with support services, and in part by refusing large numbers of immigrants. The Conservatives have tried to reduce the ever increasing number of immigrants, but opposition parties seem to want to thwart every attempt - wonder why?

If you read the post I was responding to - you'll understand my post. It was clearly directed at hattie43.
Read hattie43's post and mine will make sense.

Addiction is a coping mechanism to deal with trauma. Deal with the trauma deal with the addiction

Both - a small fund for repatriation would be far more financially viable than treating and homing people who just decide they want to be here. Nobody has a particular right to live anywhere; I couldn’t just trump up in France/USA/anywhere and expect to be housed and given money.

Yes any many more are ex-services. They only risked their lives for the country but they don't deserve a scrap of canvas over their heads in winter.
I despair and despise.

I'd rather spend time in a tent than in the company of Braverman. She is a sorry excuse for a human being and, if she knew what shame was, she'd be quiet and do her job instead of competing with Priti Patel for 'most appalling Home Secretary ever'. But she doesn't know what shame is so we have to listen to her poison until the people of Fareham come to their senses and boot her out. May it be soon.

It’s an unsustainable loop, a Ponzi scheme which will collapse, due to decades of short term government planning by all colours - opening the borders to bring in workers rather than training people properly is only part of the issue - the more people who come here, the more people need to come to provide the support for all the people coming…