Homeless to have tents banned

[dubsie]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/suella-braverman-says-rough-sleeping-is-lifestyle-choice

No one wants to see people sleeping in tents in cities but what are homeless people meant to do. Given the choice I think I'd choose a tent over a shop door way or a park bench...and I don't think many people choose being homeless ....not a lifestyle choice for most people.

I think this is more the fact that people like this minister can't stand the sight of homeless people, it reminds them that their decisions have consequences

The Democrats are notoriously bad at running cities. But they'll always be voted back in in these places. The Republicans are worse at running the country but California was never as bad as a red state. It took a Republican to turn New York around in the 90s after the Dems ran it into the ground (and will again).

moetmoet
About time someone did something about it.

Many of these people do choose to live this life, in these kinds of pop-up communities. I worked near a place (high rise with windows) where they would regularly shoot up and crap on the floor in full view. They had a row of tents that they would regularly return back to with their stolen shoplifted goods. One of the homeless men actually had a council flat but gave it up as he preferred the tent community.

We would have to walk past these people in the dark back to our cars which was terrifying, a few people were mugged. Some of these homeless would smoke crack or shoot up in the same multi story car park, piss all over it and you'd sometimes have to step over men to get down the stairs.

Nobody wants to see or be near this, it's disgusting. These people have had chance after chance after chance. I don't care what they do with them, but this softly softly approach helps nobody. Harsh punishment for these absolute ghouls plaguing our streets.

Can you elaborate on the "chances" these people have had?

@CBAanymoreTBH

Well I'd say we have a very good safety net for people in terms of benefits and housing handouts if they cannot or won't work.

Why are these people on the streets? I gave you an example in my OP, one of the homeless men concerned had a flat and gave it up as he preferred his tent life. That's where he started, in social housing. He chose to be on the streets. He won't be the only one which is why I cannot say that SB is wrong.

The vast majority of these people are homeless because they're addicts, it's all they care about. Some will break the cycle but unfortunately the majority of them won't and more importantly do not want to despite what Mumsnet will have you believe.

Why the hell should we have to put up with it? Seriously read my OP. Why the hell should we put up with that?

Before any clever sod responds again with 'opera' comments, my father was one of 'these people' and died of a heroin overdose. Incidentally he had various social housing properties over the years. I have seen and dealt with this first hand, I've seen how this goes. I am familiar with it and have no time for it.

Probably a good time to share this report again

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/destitution-uk-2023

The Democrats are notoriously bad at running cities. But they'll always be voted back in in these places. The Republicans are worse at running the country but California was never as bad as a red state. It took a Republican to turn New York around in the 90s after the Dems ran it into the ground (and will again).

Absolute tripe.

It was the deranged policies wrt federal funds for housing and the 'War on Drugs' under Reagan x 2 and Bush x 1 that destroyed cities, and they're still picking up the pieces.

The vast majority of these people are homeless because they're addicts, it's all they care about. Some will break the cycle but unfortunately the majority of them won't and more importantly do not want to despite what Mumsnet will have you believe.

Do you realise that being addicted is like having a hijacker in your brain?

Hence do not want to.

If the Prime Minister is unable to defend the words of one of his Ministers shouldn't he sack them, or is he too weak?

War on Drugs has been the biggest domestic policy disaster since prohibition of alcohol 100 years ago (unless you're a gangster or drug dealer of course), I agree with that much.

The 16 who make the choice not to have a warm safe place to stay and access to all the support services they need.

Yes, thank you.

16 people out of previous hundreds. None of whom have tents and all of whom seem to be white British FWIW.

Sorry, I didn’t carry a recording device with me at all times to provide Mumsnet with evidence, but I’m sure if you can access my family medical records you’ll find at least anecdotal evidence to back up my statement.

It’s like the Conservatives didn’t even try to stop the migrants, right? Especially with all the support they received from the opposition benches in implementing all those policies for prevention and removal 🙄

@Fryingfairy yes, it is so distressing to see how people defend blindly and do not think of the consequences for all of us as a country. I truly despair. It is like they think everyone should come here even if we are going through very difficult times and are about to become much worse.

The first detox, the section, the next detox, the CPN, the medication, the weekly (free) medication, the next section, and the next, the CPN, the GP, the family, the grandson… or the Guinness. Guess which won?

You have my sympathy and understanding @moetmoet. My father was an alcoholic with other mental health issues, got all the support in the world thrown at him, but the booze still killed him.

There is no doubt that addiction and mental health services should be better, but equally you can take a horse to water.
I know an addict well. See them every day pretty much. They have been offered support after support after support. But they make excuse after excuse not to take it. It is sad but that is the reality.

That being so, what one really needs to make sure of is that the support to help stop people becoming addicted in the first place is there.

I wonder what has happened to such support over the past 13 years?

Even Natalie Elphicke doesn't agree with Braverman

Tory MP Natalie Elphicke, who sits on the levelling up committee, also appeared to be critical of Braverman's rhetoric on tents.
"In all my years of helping people who are homeless, in cities like London and Manchester as well as my own local area in Dover and Deal, at no time, ever, has anyone said the answer lies in the removal of tents," Elphicke wrote on X.
"Homelessness is complex and needs full support and specialist services. We should always be there to lend a helping hand to people most in need – to provide more housing, life chances and opportunities.
"That is what the future we seek to build should be all about."

Ah yes, the answer is always to throw lots of money at something, in the hope some sticks. So we're meant to follow every child from birth and keep telling them not to drink alcohol, not to take drugs, not to eat chips...?

Don’t be ridiculous. The answer is to provide services to support families that need them. Killing off Surestart was iniquitous. Ideological red meat for Tory supporters and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

Prevention very often costs less than cure.
More money spent on public health would ease the burden on the NHS for example.

Is it fair to say that the High streets in many cities and towns are being hollowed out, neglected, with empty shops and so on. So therefore the homeless move in and pitch their tents as there is nothing to stop them. In areas where the high streets are vibrant, cared for and used by the public, maybe the tent phenomenon is not there so much.

It reminds me of the "broken window" theory. If you leave a window broken, then the door caves in, then the street becomes wild and neglected. If you fix the window first, paint the door etc. then the whole streetscape improves.

I dunno, I would not like the lifestyle of a tent dweller for any money, sometimes they can change their circumstances, sometimes they can't or won't. However I really don't think the main streets of our towns and cities are suitable for tent dwelling.

I know that might sound like "out of sight, out of mind", but one can have great empathy for, and sympathy with those who use tents, whilst at the same time wanting a pleasant environment when out shopping or eating etc. That does not mean I find tent dwellers unpleasant, just the visual aspect.

So shoot me now.

U-turn

NEW: Rishi Sunak has SCRAPPED Suella Braverman's plan to ban homeless tents because he's "uncomfortable" with her "lifestyle choice" comments

It has been removed from the King's Speech

So how do you explain all the older rough sleepers, or the foreign ones? How do we intervene in foreign affairs to ensure that those with mental health problems don't just come to the UK expecting to be treated and housed?

Yes. It was called Sure Start.