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Original poster

Homeless to have tents banned

381 replies

dubsie · 04/11/2023 20:50

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/suella-braverman-says-rough-sleeping-is-lifestyle-choice

No one wants to see people sleeping in tents in cities but what are homeless people meant to do. Given the choice I think I'd choose a tent over a shop door way or a park bench...and I don't think many people choose being homeless ....not a lifestyle choice for most people.

I think this is more the fact that people like this minister can't stand the sight of homeless people, it reminds them that their decisions have consequences

Suella Braverman says rough sleeping is ‘lifestyle choice’

Home secretary criticised for tweets vowing to restrict use of tents by homeless people, ‘many of them from abroad’

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/suella-braverman-says-rough-sleeping-is-lifestyle-choice

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Bettybooboo13 · 05/11/2023 13:16

@cestlavielife thank you that's well worded Smile

gotomomo · 05/11/2023 13:32

I do kind of get their point (a rarity!) we have 3 tents pitched in the garden of rest, they jeer at mourners. They have been offered hostel places and a minibus has been sent for them, the police have picked them up and their belongings, confiscating the tents and dropped them at the hostel, within a week they were back. It's a choice

IClaudine · 05/11/2023 13:33

Wonder if @Fryingfairy will ever reply to my question...

KateF · 05/11/2023 13:49

"Sleeping in tents and doorways is the visible tip of an iceberg of complex social problems"

I suspect this is Braverman's issue. It's visible and therefore embarrassing to a government who would rather people didn't notice and question the underlying issues, i.e. decimation of mental health and substance abuse services, housing crisis, failure to set up efficient procedures for processing immigration issues, persistent underfunding of education, policing, prisons and probation services, social services etc.

A young man I know served three months in prison for a drugs offence. He sold drugs because his violent alcoholic father didn't provide food and his mother left due to DV when he was twelve. They moved frequently, he dropped out of school and fell through the cracks so no social services input. He also has a mental health condition. This vulnerable eighteen year old was released from prison to find his father had moved again. Terrified of the homeless hostel because of violence and theft of his few belongings he was sleeping in the garden shed. Through my DD he ended up living with us for a year but we could find no support for his complex needs or to help him find and keep work. He had to move out because of his behaviour, got back into the drugs and ended up back in prison which he says is the best place as he is housed, fed and accessing education. What an indictment of this country, a child/ teenager failed in every way by crumbling services.

Due to this experience I have no illusions about the difficulties of helping many homeless, especially young men but Braverman is offering no solutions, just cruelty and victim blaming.

Doodar · 05/11/2023 14:13

Janedoe82 · 04/11/2023 21:20

It isn’t true they don’t have somewhere to go- there is a statutory duty for housing to be provided. They are usually on the streets for other reasons- not because no alternative housing is available. Maybe banning tents will force them to engage with statutory services.

This

Notonthestairs · 05/11/2023 14:19

Is there evidence that removing tents will mean people will engage with services?

Because I'm pretty sure Crisis, Shelter, St Mungos, Centrepoint and The Salvation Army etc etc would be able to give a view.

fetchacloth · 05/11/2023 14:24

Condo · 04/11/2023 22:03

I was in London recently and saw a lot of tents - what I want is a government who will deal with the crisis but I don’t want to have to see tented slums in major UK cities. So what is the answer?

Yes I feel the same. Parts of this country are beginning to resemble a slum and we are supposed to be a first world country. I note that parts of the US are similar.
There are no easy answers to this but maybe we need to determine how and why some people end up in this situation. 🤔
To be honest I'm not convinced it's a lifestyle choice for many.

jgw1 · 05/11/2023 14:26

jgw1 · 05/11/2023 14:23

Is Braverman in fact a genius at charity fundraising, between this and her campaign to raise funds for the RNLI...

EwwSprouts · 05/11/2023 14:34

Notonthestairs · 05/11/2023 14:19

Is there evidence that removing tents will mean people will engage with services?

Because I'm pretty sure Crisis, Shelter, St Mungos, Centrepoint and The Salvation Army etc etc would be able to give a view.

This 'approach' came up in discussion a few weeks back locally. At the time a number of us were a bit stunned because it came from an international homeless charity. Now I'm wondering maybe they can see some cash coming down the line for new services?

Notonthestairs · 05/11/2023 14:53

Well I guess homelessness charities will be free to put their support behind Braverman's plan.

mathanxiety · 05/11/2023 15:13

@jgw1 - yes, I'd say her polling has probably indicated this attitude would go down well amongst the faithful. The Tories have lost a few by-elections in recent days. She's rallying the troops, summoning the spirits.

mathanxiety · 05/11/2023 15:15

HaroldMeaker · 05/11/2023 00:26

Resources have been cut and then cut again.

In my area they stopped overnight shelter when the temperature hits zero in the winter. They changed it to a hot evening meal then out you go at 9pm. This year they stopped the hot meal. I could fucking cry.

Barbaric indeed.

What is Braverman up to?
She is shifting the narrative. Even old Tory voters might have a heart somewhere so she is telling them it is a 'lifestyle choice'. That they don't want safe accommodation, they want to clutter up market towns with their tents !! Don't blame your government, blame the poor, blame the sick, blame the most vulnerable people.

This ^

mathanxiety · 05/11/2023 15:48

User135644 · 05/11/2023 07:29

She is right though that we don't want our cities to go the way of San Fran and Los Angeles and that's the way they are going. Democrat run cities in America are shocking.

However, large quantities of homeless people shows a collapse in society and that's what needs addressing. What the Tories don't like about the tents is it highlights problems they've caused.

It's cities with mild climates you're thinking of, primarily, when you reference the homeless problem in the US, but also cities that offer a modicum of services to the homeless, addicted, mentally ill, etc. or citizens who support robust private social service organisations like Catholic Charities.

The fact that these cities tend to be run by Democrats shows a level of compassion and a citizenry willing to put at least some of their money where their mouth is, not incompetence.

HeavenCANTwait · 05/11/2023 15:53

Fuck that shit

Our church decided today that our Christmas Nativity is 3 tents outside our church (in a car park facing a busy road) dressed up like a refugee camp

With a massive banner 'Jesus was a refugee'

HeavenCANTwait · 05/11/2023 15:55

My Facebook has just come up with an ad from Shelter

131,000 children will be homeless this Christmas

FUCK THIS

usernamealreadytaken · 05/11/2023 16:03

User135644 · 05/11/2023 10:42

If we hadn't left the EU people coming in boats from France could be sent straight back. Now they can't, unless we do a deal with France that their asylum claims are processed there, but we don't want that either.

In reality we've got so many problems of our own and can't afford to take on the worlds.

Show quote history

You’re referring to the Dublin accord? You are aware that we received more people than we were able to return when we were part of that agreement?

”In 2018, there were 1,940 requests from other member states to transfer individuals into the UK under the Dublin Regulation, and 5,510 requests from the UK to transfer individuals out of the UK to other member states.
Over the same period, there were 1,215 transfers into the UK under the Dublin Regulation. The majority (946) of these transfers came from Greece.
There were 209 transfers out of the UK under the Dublin Regulation. A quarter of these (51) were transfers to France.”

usernamealreadytaken · 05/11/2023 16:05

IClaudine · 05/11/2023 11:56

There are entire estates where English is not spoken

Which estates @Fryingfairy ?

They don’t want to go no matter what. They want their UK status, council property and ongoing benefits & free healthcare

Or maybe they don't want to go because their situation in their home country would be worse than living in a tent in the UK?

Show quote history

Why does the fact they view their home situation as worse make it our problem and our cost? And doesn’t that just confirm what Braverman said about it being a lifestyle choice?

User135644 · 05/11/2023 16:17

usernamealreadytaken · 05/11/2023 16:03

You’re referring to the Dublin accord? You are aware that we received more people than we were able to return when we were part of that agreement?

”In 2018, there were 1,940 requests from other member states to transfer individuals into the UK under the Dublin Regulation, and 5,510 requests from the UK to transfer individuals out of the UK to other member states.
Over the same period, there were 1,215 transfers into the UK under the Dublin Regulation. The majority (946) of these transfers came from Greece.
There were 209 transfers out of the UK under the Dublin Regulation. A quarter of these (51) were transfers to France.”

Show quote history

That's small numbers compared to the tens of thousands coming in on boats now, knowing if they get it here there's bugger all we can do about it.

User135644 · 05/11/2023 16:21

mathanxiety · 05/11/2023 15:48

It's cities with mild climates you're thinking of, primarily, when you reference the homeless problem in the US, but also cities that offer a modicum of services to the homeless, addicted, mentally ill, etc. or citizens who support robust private social service organisations like Catholic Charities.

The fact that these cities tend to be run by Democrats shows a level of compassion and a citizenry willing to put at least some of their money where their mouth is, not incompetence.

Show quote history

The support can't be that good if there's whole swathes of these cities with people pitched up in tents. California is a failed state.

One thing Braverman is right about is we can't allow our cities to go the same way. The problem is she has nothing in the way of solutions.

usernamealreadytaken · 05/11/2023 16:34

User135644 · 05/11/2023 16:17

That's small numbers compared to the tens of thousands coming in on boats now, knowing if they get it here there's bugger all we can do about it.

Show quote history

About 4% of people were returned under Dublin III; that would equate to fewer than 2000 being returned out of the nearly 50k who arrived by small boat last year. While obviously a welcome reduction, it’s likely from previous experience that we’d receive more than we would deport. A far better approach would be to find out the criteria which places like France use in their processing, where around 20% of asylum seekers are granted leave to remain, va around 70% in the UK. Those figures would be more manageable. Even better still would be to take the approach of only receiving resettled refugees - targeting the most vulnerable and making sure housing and support services were available before their arrival.

jgw1 · 05/11/2023 18:53

mathanxiety · 05/11/2023 15:13

@jgw1 - yes, I'd say her polling has probably indicated this attitude would go down well amongst the faithful. The Tories have lost a few by-elections in recent days. She's rallying the troops, summoning the spirits.

I have found somewhere the Tories are popular.

They were very much to the fore in Lewes yesterday evening!

jgw1 · 05/11/2023 19:02

usernamealreadytaken · 05/11/2023 16:03

You’re referring to the Dublin accord? You are aware that we received more people than we were able to return when we were part of that agreement?

”In 2018, there were 1,940 requests from other member states to transfer individuals into the UK under the Dublin Regulation, and 5,510 requests from the UK to transfer individuals out of the UK to other member states.
Over the same period, there were 1,215 transfers into the UK under the Dublin Regulation. The majority (946) of these transfers came from Greece.
There were 209 transfers out of the UK under the Dublin Regulation. A quarter of these (51) were transfers to France.”

Show quote history

Feel free to have a discussion about why the government chose not to use a variety of EU provisions more widely than it did.

jgw1 · 05/11/2023 19:04

usernamealreadytaken · 05/11/2023 16:34

About 4% of people were returned under Dublin III; that would equate to fewer than 2000 being returned out of the nearly 50k who arrived by small boat last year. While obviously a welcome reduction, it’s likely from previous experience that we’d receive more than we would deport. A far better approach would be to find out the criteria which places like France use in their processing, where around 20% of asylum seekers are granted leave to remain, va around 70% in the UK. Those figures would be more manageable. Even better still would be to take the approach of only receiving resettled refugees - targeting the most vulnerable and making sure housing and support services were available before their arrival.

Show quote history

It is though still a bigger number than would ever be sent to Rwanda.

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