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Politics

Massive money vacuum pretending to be environmentally excusable

31 replies

Muddays · 28/12/2022 06:17

Does anyone actually know where the astronomical amount of money that the ULEZ charge has generated and increased over the past few years gone? I have tried to find out what it's being spent on and keep on ending up back at the start of my enquiry with vague fobbing off platitudes signifying absolutely nothing. E.g, are any charities receiving money from this charge, which would amount to millions each day?

OP posts:
GolfEchoRomeoTangoIndia · 28/12/2022 12:09

I agree with almost everything damnautocorrect has said: this is terrible timing for small businesses who own older diesel vans.

But "green" is not a single dimension metric. Diesel cars were "greener" insofar as they travelled further for the same carbon emissions, and because they have embedded carbon in their manufacture. But they were simultaneously emitting deadly substances into the lungs of passers-by. An acceptable trade-off perhaps if you're doing huge mileage over the Yorkshire Dales. But not if you're stuck in a traffic jam outside a Lee Green primary school.

ThreeFeetTall · 28/12/2022 12:11

The mayor made a transport decision that directly helps poorer families which was to allow a 'hopper' ticket meaning it costs £1.50 for one journey on multiple busses instead of £1.50 per bus. This costs quite a lot in subsidy. In general money spent on busses is more likely to help poorer people than money spent on the tube or fancy cable cars

AreOttersJustWetCats · 28/12/2022 12:15

GolfEchoRomeoTangoIndia · 28/12/2022 09:47

I'm sceptical that you're asking in good faith, but anyway.....
The money goes to TfL, which is a non-profit-making entity, partially funded by government grant. As you may remember, in 2020/21/22 there were travel restrictions which resulted in huge loss of revenue to TfL. The money is helping with that hole in the budget, and also with switching the bus fleet to zero emissions.

This. The fact that you're asking about it going to charity (wtf?) makes it sound very much like the question isn't in good faith.

GolfEchoRomeoTangoIndia · 28/12/2022 12:17

ThreeFeetTall · 28/12/2022 12:11

The mayor made a transport decision that directly helps poorer families which was to allow a 'hopper' ticket meaning it costs £1.50 for one journey on multiple busses instead of £1.50 per bus. This costs quite a lot in subsidy. In general money spent on busses is more likely to help poorer people than money spent on the tube or fancy cable cars

I agree, the Hopper concession is a huge benefit for non-car owners, especially in the outer boroughs, who are disproportionately poorer and/or disabled.(there are many people who have to use cars/private hire due to disability but there are also many who can't drive due to disabilities for whom accessible affordable buses are key)

Damnautocorrect · 28/12/2022 12:21

GolfEchoRomeoTangoIndia · 28/12/2022 12:09

I agree with almost everything damnautocorrect has said: this is terrible timing for small businesses who own older diesel vans.

But "green" is not a single dimension metric. Diesel cars were "greener" insofar as they travelled further for the same carbon emissions, and because they have embedded carbon in their manufacture. But they were simultaneously emitting deadly substances into the lungs of passers-by. An acceptable trade-off perhaps if you're doing huge mileage over the Yorkshire Dales. But not if you're stuck in a traffic jam outside a Lee Green primary school.

Diesel is generally greener for someone doing 18k miles upwards a year, as you say though it does depend what those miles are.

some people were put in diesels years ago that never should have been, E.g school run parent. Small mileage cars were attractive with the £30 a year tax and low company car tax, as the emissions we cared about then they were lower on. It was madness then, as they cost more to maintain (and DPF issues), but manufacturers pushed them left right and centre because of government incentives.
Those people are already changing as those vehicles are older now.

There is a bit of a supply issue in family sized vehicles around 2007 - 2014. The early small turbo petrol engines, are a bit, well, melty Grin and most of that sector were still sold as diesel. So there is a bit of a shortage in that market, again pushing prices up. People looking for petrol S max/ galaxies type have little choice.

Damnautocorrect · 28/12/2022 13:09

The interesting thing is some people are swapping their diesel cars for great big older v8’s that are ulez compliant. In a “fuck it, I’ve still got the lease car for miles” type way.

meanwhile you’ve John the plumber who moved out to Harlow so he could afford a house, who mainly works in Loughton. He does the commute in his smart well looked after 12 plate transit, he spent a couple of grand on racking in the back to keep his tools and equipment nice. It’s a 189/co2 model.
he doesn’t qualify for the support as his vans registered in Harlow, he doesn’t have 15k to upgrade his van and then another couple of grand for the new racking to upgrade to a van that’s 176g/co2.

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