Why is NI being increased when Brexit was meant to fund the NHS shortfall.

[pollygartertidywife]

Hi All. I am really sorry if this question has been asked before but I have had a look for a past thread and can't find one.
I have just listened to all the guff coming out of Nadhim Zahawi's mouth this morning on the Today programme. Lots of talk about how the NI rise is essential to fund NHS and social care.. and I can't help but cast my mind back 4 /5 years and seem to remember that one of the main reasons to leave the EU was the amount of money we paid in.. and how all that dosh was going to support the NHS . It was a big influence in many people voting to leave.
(I voted remain but did waiver for a moment on this particular issue )

Has this claim been forgotten about ? Why is it not mentioned in political debate ? And if it has - what is the reasoning given that this hike is needed on top of all the Brexit 'savings'

The bus said we could spend it on the NHS. Could not would. Never mind it was a load of pie in the sky. Even if the money had been real, it was never actually going to be spent on the NHS.

Because Johnson is a lying cunt.

Political advertising is not covered by the "normal" laws surrounding advertising. Therefore it does not have to be truthful. There is a campaign going to get this changed but right now they can blatantly lie to us and suffer no consequences

@IpanemaPeaHen

Big red bus with 350 million a week written in large letters on the side RunningintheWind

Boris Johnson standing in front of it, arms wide, lying grin stuck on his face.

It’s not discussed enough in the media you’re right op.

Absolutely right. Fed up with Johnson and avoid the Daily Mail in order to avoid my blood pressure rising to a dangerous level.

@BuanoKubiamVej

The total budget for the nhs is more than £100bn/yr. That doesn't include everything because it's not all a single lump sum from one source but that's the scale. The total tax revenue the government takes from all sources is around £850bn/yr so the NHS is a bit less than an eighth of that.

The actual net contribution to the EU was about £7.8bn/yr (source here but the government is having to spend way more than that on propping up all the communities and industries who have lost EU funding, so there is zero brexit dividend, which was entirely predictable and was indeed publicly predicted many many times before the referendum.

The idea that leaving the EU was ever going to solve nhs underfunding was laughable. Even if there had been a brexit dividend it would have been a drop in the ocean. It's unfortunate that the state of education in this country is so low that too many people were taken in by such ridiculous claims, but it's done now.

Yabu for expecting any kind of honesty and integrity from the clowns who are currently in charge, but this country has the crappy government it deserves, and things will carry on getting worse because there are insufficient people who care enough to make any significant changes.

This. Everything about this.

The NHS is a bottomless pit that will swallow up everything it is given and then some more. Even with limitless funding I believe it still wouldnt be able to do or be everything we would like it to. It does things now that would never have been imagined possible when it was first formed (eg cancer treatments and survival) but that all comes at a vast cost. There's huge sums wasted every month on drugs prescribed that then have to be thrown away unused eg my fathers just in case end of life cancer drugs. I think it's beyond sorting out TBH.

Covid has been a gift horse for the Tories. Whatever they do they can blame it on covid, particularly dismantling the NHS - it's not fit for purpose, it will 'buckle' so needs reform

We are actually putting more money than ever in to the NHS

@CrotchetyQuaver

The NHS is a bottomless pit that will swallow up everything it is given and then some more. Even with limitless funding I believe it still wouldnt be able to do or be everything we would like it to. It does things now that would never have been imagined possible when it was first formed (eg cancer treatments and survival) but that all comes at a vast cost. There's huge sums wasted every month on drugs prescribed that then have to be thrown away unused eg my fathers just in case end of life cancer drugs. I think it's beyond sorting out TBH.

And yet in international comparisons it frequently comes in the top one or two global healthcare systems for efficiency.

Not sure you’d like to see the amount of topslicing and sheer waste that goes on in US healthcare, for example, whilst poorer people have hardly any healthcare access.

Yes, there are significant problems with NHS funding and management, but largely because we pay less in GDP per head to support it than almost any other advanced nation, but expect the same results.

@pollygartertidywife

Hi All. I am really sorry if this question has been asked before but I have had a look for a past thread and can't find one. I have just listened to all the guff coming out of Nadhim Zahawi's mouth this morning on the Today programme. Lots of talk about how the NI rise is essential to fund NHS and social care.. and I can't help but cast my mind back 4 /5 years and seem to remember that one of the main reasons to leave the EU was the amount of money we paid in.. and how all that dosh was going to support the NHS . It was a big influence in many people voting to leave. (I voted remain but did waiver for a moment on this particular issue )

Has this claim been forgotten about ? Why is it not mentioned in political debate ? And if it has - what is the reasoning given that this hike is needed on top of all the Brexit 'savings'

Well first of all OP, you know it was a lie.

Second of all, covid and the chronic underfunding of the NHS means it needs a tax rise. National Insurance is the wrong way but that’s my view.

Thirdly - they chose NI because it hits the pockets hardest of those they give the least fucks about. If you’re very rich you don’t pay NI (although, any rich person that has a heart attack will most certainly get a NHS ambulance to save their life).

@Lockedoorsopen

We are actually putting more money than ever in to the NHS

Incorrect. Unless you wish to ignore inflation 😂

Yes, there are significant problems with NHS funding and management, but largely because we pay less in GDP per head to support it than almost any other advanced nation, but expect the same results

Yep

Foxgoosefinch yes not only do we pay less per head of GDP compared to other countries for health care but also Brexit has already reduced our annual GDP by 4%. This is expected to continue year on year.

If any economy were offered the chance to increase their GDP by 4% they would jump at it. Only the UK has voted to make itself poorer. However I still think this will take a long time to resonate.

There is a reason no other country has the same model of healthcare as the NHS because it is useless.

Governments are extremely incompetent look at the DVLA I can open a bank account on my phone in a day and I can't get a logbook sent to my home in 6 weeks.

Any money the NHS is given is wasted it has worst health outcomes than nearly every other EU country.

No one wants to copy the NHS it is shite, and out of date

@MylilFoley

Have you lived in a country without 'free at source' healthcare.

I have, so scary to not be able to sleep because I had found a lump in my breast and couldn't afford to see a doctor.

I've sat up all night pinning together my BF's finger, in the hope his seriously cut finger would stop bleeding and heal, worried that we couldn't afford health care, didn't know if he would need a tetanus and how much this would be, couldn't afford stitches and didn't know how much it would cost to have said stitches removed. The agonising decision of risking losing a finger, over saving money.

After experiences like these, I never want to be without the NHS. The freedom to ask for help, the steps to good care accessible.

Have you lived in a European country?

I've lived in several countries France, Germany, Czech, Australia, Canada and Ireland

All have superior health systems to the NHS the stats back this up

@MylilFoley

Have you lived in a European country?

I've lived in several countries France, Germany, Czech, Australia, Canada and Ireland

All have superior health systems to the NHS the stats back this up

The stats really don’t back this up.

The answer to the OP is that NI is being increased in order to shift more of the burden of running society onto the poorest rather than richest, and Brexit was never meant to fund the NHS shortfall - it was also meant to shift wealth away from the poorest toward the richest.

They are not opposites, on the contrary they come from the same place.

I don't think many people really expect anything said in a political campaign to happen any more. Does anyone thing that had Remain won there would be serious moves to try and reform the EU? And then many people who voted did so for other reasons anyway and maybe never thought that particular idea held water.

But in any case, things have been so off the rails due to covid it's not even really possible to speculate about any plan or plan like suggestions about health care funding. It would really be pure speculation and a waste of time.

@MylilFoley

Have you lived in a European country?

I've lived in several countries France, Germany, Czech, Australia, Canada and Ireland

All have superior health systems to the NHS the stats back this up

I don't know if I'd say that about Canada. Our system is marginal, fewer beds than most other wealthy countries, certainly fewer than the UK. It made covid a real problem because hospitals were so easily overwhelmed.

Though how to control health care funding is increasingly an issue everywhere. It's not so much to do with any individual country but with the direction modern medicine has taken.

Answering the OP . Incase you missed it, a pandemic just happened.

£350 million is a drop in the ocean for the NHS.... it costs £700million plus a year to keep our small hospital doing its thing... I'd imagine a big city hospital would have a budget in the billions...

Perhaps because there was no money to be gained by leaving the EU? Any money saved by not paying to be a member of the EU was lost and then some by the damage to the economy by not being members of the world's largest trading bloc. I cannot believe that people think we paid more money into the EU than we got out of being members. Did they really believe successive governments paid to be members for decades without there being some economic benefit?

Not to mention the huge costs involved in setting up all the separate agencies and checks that now need to be involved because we are not members.

We are economically weakened by not being in the EU so that will leave less money for public services. Everyone involved knew the bus was a big fat lie but as BJ has proven time and again, the British public are quite happy to let politicians get away with lying.