Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Politics

What's worse (or better) for the economy, Brexit or Corbyn?

37 replies

KenDodd · 09/12/2019 21:42

Anyone got any proper expert predicted numbers on this?

Sick of seeing loads of know nothing posters who are clearly as poorly qualified (or worse) than I am to answer this, spouting I'll informed nonsense. Very grateful for links people might have or expert knowledge (I know there are also some very well informed on here as well) people might have.

Btw I know Brexit isn't all about the economy (it isn't for me either, NI is much more important imo) so respect posters veiws that it should happen regardless of the cost. I just want to focus on the money though.

OP posts:
ColourMagic · 11/12/2019 12:01

'Corbyn better than no-deal Brexit, say investment banks as anti-capitalist Labour wins unlikely new City fans'

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/09/03/corbyn-better-no-deal-brexit-say-investment-banks-anti-capitalist/

Justajot · 11/12/2019 12:19

Corbyn clearly isn't going to get a majority, so won't be able to do much beyond a second referendum and uncontroversial increases in public spending. He won't have the power to do the nationalisation things or his other wackier policies. I'd rather we sort out Brexit under an alliance of parties and then have another election.

ColourMagic · 11/12/2019 14:18

"Corbyn ... whackier policies.."

.
You mean 'whacky' policies such as the Tory government removing the nurses bursaries, creating a 40,000 shortfall of nurses in the NHS, set to rise to 68,000 by 2023/4.

.
'The nursing staff shortfall is the ‘most concerning’ shortage across the NHS, a report published this week by NHS Providers – a membership organisation for NHS trusts - has found.'

.
Nursing in Practice:

Lack of nurses ‘most concerning’ shortage in NHS, report finds

.
'The report, ‘The state of the NHS Provider sector’, pointed out that the Health Foundation, The King’s Fund and the Nuffield Trust have projected that on current trends, in 10 years' time, the NHS will have a shortfall of 108,000 full-time equivalent nurses.

Additionally, successful applications to undergraduate nursing courses have lagged behind government targets, with the number of placed applicants in 2018 4% lower than in 2016.

It also raised concerns around the exodus of nurses from the European Union (EU) with 1,584 more nurses and health visitors from EU countries leaving their roles than joining them between July 2017 and July 2018....'

www.nursinginpractice.com/professional/nurse-shortages-most-concerning-nhs

ColourMagic · 11/12/2019 14:27

The publication 'Nursing Practice' (continued)

.
'Responding the report, RCN chief executive and general secretary Dame Donna Kinnair said: ‘Ministers should be honest with the public about the scale of the challenge but they should also prepare to answer the difficult questions that will follow on how they are going to turn it around, and almost six in 10 (59%) were worried this was not in place.

‘Public awareness of these issues, especially staff shortages, is already high but so are their levels of anxiety. Rose-tinted spectacles, nostalgia or political spin will not cut it when patients and taxpayers are concerned about how safe things currently are at their local hospital or service.

‘This report is absolutely right to call for a funded and credible workforce plan for England that addresses the shortage of at least 40,000 nurse jobs. It clearly states that nursing workforce shortages are the most concerning staffing pressure in the entire health service. This should be seen in the context of a massive shortage across all health and care settings, and all sectors of provision.

‘Now that the NHS in England has officially asked Government to address the question of accountability for workforce supply and planning, it is clear that legal duties must be introduced into legislation. This is in addition to an investment of at least £1 billion per year extra in nursing higher education.’
.
www.nursinginpractice.com/professional/nurse-shortages-most-concerning-nhs

.
What a waste of nurses and other skilled NHS professionals, lost to the NHS, or not able to enrol to train due to financial pressures on them.

Putting right the damage caused by 9 years of 'whacky' Tory policies will be one of the tasks for a Labour government.

.

ColourMagic · 11/12/2019 16:44

'Second Lib Dem election candidate endorses vote for Labour rival for his seat on day before election'

'Liberal Democrat Rhys Taylor in Cardiff North has become the second of his party’s general election candidates to advise supporters to vote tactically for their Labour rival to defeat Conservatives.

Mr Taylor followed Brendan Devlin in Stockton South, who this morning effectively endorsed his Labour rival in a key marginal seat in the North-East.'
.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/second-lib-dem-election-candidate-endorses-labour-rival-for-his-seat-a9242541.html

ColourMagic · 11/12/2019 21:13

@ KenDodd ... I don't know if this is of any interest to you.

.
Three months ago journalist Peter Oborne wrote this article.

Peter Oborne today: "Exactly three months ago I wrote this article arguing that Jeremy Corbyn is far less of an economic risk than Boris Johnson. The arguments hold good today:"

.
Today Oborne announced (on twitter) that he is voting for Jeremy Corbyn's Labour (despite being a lifelong Conservative and member of the Conservative party. Not sure if he still is a member now.)

.
Oborne is a political writer for the Mail, he was chief political editor for the Telegraph for years. He left in 2015. He also writes on politics for Middle Eastern Eye.

.
Oborne in the Middle Eastern Eye "Debunking many myths about Jeremy Corbyn".

'Jeremy Corbyn can save the UK economy from the perils of a no-deal Brexit. A new false narrative centres on fears that a government led by the Labour leader poses a mortal threat to the British economy'

.
'Corbyn is more mainstream than some of his political opponents allow. More to the point, I can’t help but notice that Corbyn and his shadow chancellor McDonnell go down well in the City. Better by far than Boris Johnson.

There is now undeniable evidence that markets are actually rising on prospects of a Corbyn government, not the reverse

Most tellingly of all, in recent weeks an unexpected pattern has emerged on the currency market. When the Tory government is hit with a setback in the Commons, the value of sterling tends to rise, sometimes quite sharply.

One would expect that if the markets were terrified of Jeremy Corbyn, they would fall sharply as Corbyn’s chances improved. But there is now undeniable evidence that markets are actually rising on prospects of a Corbyn government, not the reverse.

As the Financial Times, not a left-wing publication, noted last week: “Markets are warming towards Jeremy Corbyn. Yes, you read that right. In a sign of just how unpredictable UK markets have become, analysts are starting to believe that the diehard socialist leader of the Labour Party could be just what sterling needs in this, its darkest hour.”

www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/debunking-many-myths-about-jeremy-corbyn?fbclid=IwAR3kGR3AXoUSszEWDup_Z4deZrGJjPItKwVXvFAwUsJrKq9IWAln1PcEf_Q

.
Peter Oborne is clearly not sure about all of Corbyn's policies, but he is sure enough to vote Labour for the first time
twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1204834654299344907

.
...and to warn about Johnson's Tories, as he explained today in this piece in the Guardian:

'Boris Johnson wants to destroy the Britain I love. I cannot vote Conservative. Johnson’s Conservatives are a revolutionary sect and should be understood as such'

'’ve been a loyal Conservative voter. Until very recently, I’d exclusively worked for Conservative-leaning publications: the Telegraph, Mail, London Evening Standard, Express and Spectator. Most of my friends and relations are Conservative. But I cannot vote Conservative tomorrow.

Something horrible has happened. The Conservative party lies. It cheats. It bullies. It’s not the wise, gentle, decent party of the postwar era.

I wonder whether Boris Johnson and his squalid associates are Conservatives at all. The Conservativism I understand is about public duty, generosity, the instinct to conserve what is good in our society; the importance of the rule of law and of institutions; suspicion of leaps in the dark. I am thinking of the Conservatism of Burke, Lord Salisbury, Oakeshott.

Johnson has become the leader of a project – his adviser Dominic Cummings is an important part of this – to destroy Conservatism. This is why during his brief term as prime minister Boris Johnson has attacked parliament, mocked the rule of law, abused the monarchy, and shown a total disregard for the truth....'

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/11/boris-johnson-destroy-britain-conservative-revolutionary-sect?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1576089179

BrexitMakeItStop · 11/12/2019 21:16

Brexit is worse. It's voluntarily smashing the entire country into the ground.

ColourMagic · 12/12/2019 11:01

Forbes September 2019:

'Why Small Businesses Should Not Fear Jeremy Corbyn'

www.forbes.com/sites/davidprosser/2019/09/27/why-small-businesses-should-not-fear-jeremy-corbyn/#1a34ac2122f9

ColourMagic · 12/12/2019 12:02

@ KenDodd

.
'98 Reasons To Stay In The EU: Benefits Of Membership For The UK'

'The Bank of England estimates that the fallout of a No Deal Brexit will be worse than the 2008 financial crisis. Needless to say this will likely be very bad for UK small businesses.'

smallbusinessprices.co.uk/remain-eu/?fbclid=IwAR2jk-M-ewEvx9S6c71Ied3RktkbluFd8Grl-ZWW0WxJkeyC1iH9XRIePf0

KenDodd · 12/12/2019 15:53

Thank you. I don't think there's anyone left disputing that Brexit will be terrible for the economy. Even 'Economists for Brexit' seem to be distancing themselves, I noticed they've changed their name to 'Economists for Free Trade'.

OP posts:
cdtaylornats · 12/12/2019 19:05

I don't understand where Corbyn thinks the better deal is coming from the EU has already said no.

berrylands · 12/12/2019 21:49

@cdtaylornats Corbyn won't have the same red lines as the tories so his deal can be completely different

New posts on this thread. Refresh page