People wonder why I would never vote Conservative

[Moomin8]

Well, the answer is scumbags like this

https://metro.co.uk/video/tory-cllr-says-people-learning-difficulties-paid-less-2064346/?ito=vjs-link

They stand there and talk like a Nazi, because they don't see anything wrong with it

This refers to people who are unable to live alone, though. They are often already supported through assisted living facilities. I've never been rude enough to enquire about the details of their arrangements, but there is no way my friend's children are earning to cover their living costs- which include assistance with meals and some general supervision.

I'm more concerned about the people who never get to leave home, and the support their families do not get!

I would never vote Conservative either - I grew up under Thatcher and it's sickening to see the country go backwards over the past 9 years.

Since 2010 the country has been in chaos and nasty remarks against the disabled, ethnic minorities and women are now commonplace again.

I wouldn't bother arguing on Mumsnet though - it's full of Bots getting paid to defend the indefensible.

The original Spectator article written by the mother of a disabled child gives some context to this. I have a disabled relative who would dearly love a "paid job" but would not be able to compete with an NT person for a role. He would need significant support and even then struggle to fulfil lots of elements of most jobs. What's the answer for these people? He expressly states that he sees volunteer roles as inferior and places a great emphasis on recieving a wage "like everybody else".

@Moomin8
you don't treat them differently to a NT person because that's discrimination
This is very naive and totally ignores the fact that people like my relative need to be treated differently than an NT person as they need additional support and measures to stand any chance of being able to cope in the workplace. Equality does not mean treating everybody the same.

That's a bit sweeping angemorange! But I'd better not engage, you're probably a bot, or paid to argue without actually offering up any actual arguments.

It really annoys me- and I'm not a conservative voter- that this kind of thing is trotted out as evidence of Tory scum heartlessness.

It's part of a conversation that parents of disabled children are very familiar with, and it needs to be discussed.

Equality does not mean treating everybody the same.

No, you makes adjustments for someone with a disability. Positive adjustments you don't say oh well it's ok to pay them less because they don't understand money

This refers to people who are unable to live alone, though. They are often already supported through assisted living facilities.

So, it's ok not to pay a NT 21 year old minimum wage if they still live at home with mum & dad?

@Sprinklemetinsel It really annoys me- and I'm not a conservative voter- that this kind of thing is trotted out as evidence of Tory scum heartlessness.

Because it's Tories who are saying it! And I'm not a bot - wish I was though as I'm sure some on here are getting paid a fortune!

This was already covered in a recent, very long thread. Can't find it though.... sorry.

But basically, this was off the back of a plea from Rosa Monkton, the mother of a non-independent Downs child, who just wanted her child to have some sort of working role in the community. More in terms of social interaction, and being inclusive, but also recognising the fact that her daughter did not have any skills as such that would allow her to fully participate in a properly paid role.

No, you makes adjustments for someone with a disability. Positive adjustments you don't say oh well it's ok to pay them less because they don't understand money

Yes, of course you make adjustments for someone with a disability or mild SN. This is not the case that was being discussed. It was for a profoundly compromised Downs child, whose mother wanted to seek a small amount of normality for.

The current Tories are a dreadful bunch. They got rid of all the moderates. We need them out. If Johnson gets a majority on Friday, prepare for the worst. We'll get the hardest of all Brexits ... even though all polls show that the majority now want to remain. The NHS will be gradually sold off. The rich will get tax breaks whilst the poorest suffer on UC and rely on foodbanks. Schools will continue to struggle with budgets and staff recruitment/retention, EU healthcare workers will leave ... if they haven't already. No need to worry if you're loaded and can afford private healthcare, private schools, a holiday home in France, ... but you might have to get used to stepping over more poor and homeless people as you trot into Waitrose. If that sounds unpleasant, you know what to do. Vote tactically for the candidate best placed to beat a Tory in your constituency.

Wasn't this something to do with Rosa Monkton talking about her disabled child? AIUI, she was referring to the benefits of being 'employed' although the extent of their employment was limited, the benefit to the 'employee' in terms of self esteem and inclusivity was palpable.

My friends daughter 'works' at the British Heart Foundation. She is in her 40's, has Downs Syndrome and the women treat her like shit. She gets paid zero. Not even her bus fare.

Another friends daughter has a mild learning disability, can drive and works at her fathers company mainly photocopying and filing. Cannot answer the phone or take messages. She earns national minimum wage.

They both enjoy their work and feel valued - the utter bastardness of the colleagues of Friend A goes straight over her head thank goodness.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3761861-People-with-learning-difficulties-should-be-paid-less?pg=1

Found the other conversation......

Aaah, cross posted with Baaaahhh.

Following RMs article, the MP for Hove? was questioned and her badly phrased response taken completely out of context. But better not to let facts get in the way of another example of the disgusting, heartless Tories

www.spectator.co.uk/2017/03/the-minimum-wage-denies-my-daughter-the-dignity-of-a-paid-job/

This was the original article, it's quite old.

People are paid less when they are younger.
I don't know whether it's in recognition of them still being supported by parents, or whether they bring less to a role. 🤷🏼‍♀️

It depends how you see 'work'. If an activity is not productive, if it does not create some value/wealth, then should it be paid as work?

How would you keep a business viable, if you pay people who cannot work unaided and unsupervised at the same rate as people who can?

I understand your outrage at the flat statement, 'people with learning disabilities should be paid less'. But how will you keep people with learning disabilities in work, if they are competing with people without learning disabilities?

If people are receiving benefits and assisted care in recognition of the fact that they are unable to earn their living, why would they also be paid at a rate that allows them to earn their living? That doesn't make sense!

@Moomin8
No, you makes adjustments for someone with a disability. Positive adjustments you don't say oh well it's ok to pay them less because they don't understand money
This discussion is far more complex than underpaying the learning disabled because they don't understand money or in some cases are unable to demand an equal wage. Uniformly applying National Living Wage policy irrespective of the impact that this has on the learning disabled that want to work isn't necessarily a good thing. As someone stated upthread, there is already a lower NMW for people under 25 in recognition that young adults may be less experienced and there is a need to incentivise businesses to employ them.

I can't believe that people would genuinely try to defend comments like this honestly 🤯

@Moomin8 - it's sickening. All need to read the Equality Act

@IsItBetter grow up?

Maybe if you had a disabled child you might not be so bloody rude and dismissive. Unfortunately Attitudes like this are not even considered to be wrong among many Conservative counsellors. I am not saying all of them think like this but the Tories have spent 10 years shitting on disabled and vulnerable people.

Meanwhile we have an openly racist Prime Minister who keeps company with eugenicists like Steve Bannon.

But that's ok, eh?

^ ironically the author does have a disabled child.

Indeed @Bloomburger