Scotland's new income tax!

[mummyhaschangedhername]

Was this expected? What the general feeling about this?

In my Council area which calls it LHA (local housing allowance) it’s based on the make up of your household. So for example if I had 3 kids, 2 boys aged 13 and 15 and a girl aged 5 they’d pay for a 3 bed home since the boys could share. However if I had a girl and a boy aged 13 and 15 they’d do the same, as over 10 boys and girls can’t share according to the rules. But if I had 2 under 10 of different genders they’d only pay for a 2 bed because they’re deemed able to share.
I can’t speak for every council area, but I do know that’s the procedure in North Lanarkshire. When I claimed housing benefit 6 + years ago, I was in a private rental and housing benefit didn’t cover all of my rent, I had a £60 shortfall to make up despite not having a bigger home, or extra bedrooms.
There are scarcely any 1-2 bedroom homes available locally from the Council or HA, unless they’re in godawful areas, and that’s in spite of new homes being built over the last 10 years pretty regularly.

We need to support people to find stable housing, work (if they are fit to work) and security. Just stopping/cutting money is not the way to do that, it’s brutal, ineffective and inhumane, as well as feeding into the DM/channel 5/Tory myth that everyone in social housing/on benefits is some kind of scrounger living the life of Riley.

What happens when your kids turn 16 and they move out?

NRA... Just to be clear I agree with most of your points. There is absolutely a need for more housing and housing support. But we need to use what we have to it's full capacity to minimise the impact.
It's the families that are living in too small houses or no houses at all that are being impacted

When they move out it becomes a spare bedroom, and in anywhere but Scotland would be eligible to be taxed.

This is the thing though, you can’t uproot settled families/force them into poverty by applying a tax without offering them an alternative first. Kids would have to change schools, leave all their friends, parents would have to stop work/change jobs/move away from family/friends/support network. That’s why my point is that the only solution is investment and building on an epic scale, because you can’t help homeless/overcrowded families by creating more.

I agree with that. They should be offered an alternative, if they refuse they should be taxed. I get there is no right answer, but we shouldn't be encouraging empty rooms when there is a shortage of housing. We have lots of 1/2 beds over occupied and lots of 3/4 beds under occupied.

I agree with that, it would be better if we could get everybody into a secure tenancy in a home that’s right for their family, whether that’s social housing/private rent/owned. The part I really strongly disagree with is the notion that social tenants just have to lump it when these sweeping changes are brought in that could either push them over the breadline or force them to move miles from their support network and schools.

In Scotland there is now no incentive for them to move. Why would you downsize when someone else is picking up the bill

The problem is that by sweeping the Bedroom tax aside the Scottish government haven't solved the problem, they are just saying we are happy with under occupied homes and they will continue to subsidise it.
Bedroom tax isn't ideal but they could have worked with it and applied it differently

Yes, Westminster attracts a much higher caliber of politician. It offers a different kind of career path and many more areas of government in which to pursue special interests e.g. Defence, which are reserved.

This made me really laugh, thanks. You mean ‘typical’ not higher caliber? The Scottish government works on a consultation and negotiations basis so there are plenty of committees that allow an MSP to ‘peruse special intrests’ too.

I honestly don’t have much time for anyone wringing there hands over these particular tax increase. They really amount to very little compared to how much those on benefits, especially disability benefits have been losing.

If you wish to move because of this and didn’t see the benefits that are available In Scotland that are not free at point of acces or available in other parts of the U.K. then you must be a bit dim.

The problem is that by sweeping the Bedroom tax aside the Scottish government haven't solved the problem, they are just saying we are happy with under occupied homes and they will continue to subsidise it.Bedroom tax isn't ideal but they could have worked with it and applied it differently

Not really, it’s a reserved matter and are limited to what they can do, this was the best solution at the time. The Scot gov have been in consultation for a while and will be taking over some welfare powers in April 2018 so we’ll seen then what they can do to improve the current abysmal situation for benefit recipients.

Why would you downsize when someone else is picking up the bill

Now see you’ve lost me again, because you’re assuming everyone affected by the bedroom tax is on benefits, and your tone implies they’re mooching. Neither is true.

There is no perfect solution, but I’d rather have a government that proactively prevented people being forced into poverty than one that put them there in the first place.

I don’t see social housing tenants or people on benefits the way you seem to Lichtie, we don’t and shouldn’t have the right to uproot them, make their lives harder, and to dictate what happens without offering alternatives. I also don’t resent that they are in receipt of funding from the state or subsidised housing. Because I well remember how bloody hard it was, it’s not a cushty life, neither is working in a MW job on a zero hour contract. I’d rather have a government which actually gives a shit about people.

NRA... You've lost me too. How can you be affected by bedroom tax if your not on benefits?
I'm not implying they are mooching, I am advocating using what we have to ensure that people who do need it get it

It’s difficult to talk for the whole pop of England but I am in England now and they have motorways and a good train service, buses run all night. I’d probably be happier having treatment on nhs here, possibly because I have heard many stories of poor service where I live in Scotland. Due to lack of staff. Primary school here is excellent but teachers in Scotland are seriously struggling. Lack of TAs and support for DCs withbehavioural probs. There is a great supported housing block for the elderly across the road from me here which don’t exist where I live in Scotland sadly.
Social housing is provided by private cos in England, sounds as if it is still run by councils in Scotland if giv is funding it

Lichtie "The problem is that by sweeping the Bedroom tax aside the Scottish government haven't solved the problem, they are just saying we are happy with under occupied homes and they will continue to subsidise it.
Bedroom tax isn't ideal but they could have worked with it and applied it differently"

But the Scottish government have been and are building housing - social and affordable. Check out how many council houses labour built when they were in charge...(think it was 6 (yes, six) in their last term). That's a better way of dealing with the problem, surely.

Melody, we have supported housing for the elderly in Scotland too! Plus free personal care for the elderly.

Litchie relative to the rest of the UK Scotland has far lower levels of housing shortage as a result of higher house building, lower population growth and better affordability. Social housing stock makes up about 25% of the whole with 15% private rented. These percentages are reversed in England. The result is that the Housing Benefit bill per head in Scotland is much lower than for the rest of the UK (half of London spend per head). However as Housing Benefit is not devolved the UK as a whole rather than Scotland benefits from this reduced cost. Otoh Scottish investment in housing and policies such as bedroom tax mitigation are borne directly by the Holyrood budget.

This is the mismatch which needs addressing.

I very much doubt the bedroom tax is freeing up housing in England as the dwindling stocks are increasingly occupied by retirees and long term sick and disabled. Both of these groups are protected from the bedroom tax.

Melony We even have motorways and trains and buses in Scotland too!

I’m not affected by bedroom tax, and I’m not talking about my situation. Like I said before, I’m not on benefits or renting so personally it doesn’t affect me. However I don’t feel I have the right to expect people to justify every penny they spend or uproot their whole lives on a whim. It’s the attitude of “well we pay for them so they have no choices” that really riles me. It dehumanises people, and that is never good.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine do we? I thought they were a figment of our imagination along with an imperfect education system that’s still a shite sight better than the shambolic one in England!

Nyx... The emphasis moved from council housing to other social housing and housing associations. The numbers of completed new social houses under Labour was actually higher than SNP on a like for like basis... But only very slightly

Hoeabout... I'm not commending the UK govt. I'm not saying they are better, I'm saying we should be doing better with what we've got to utilise it. What they do down south is up to them.

*howabout (oops)

Lichtie - no it wasn't.

Lichtie do you have any evidence for that statement re: "The numbers of completed new social houses under Labour was actually higher than SNP on a like for like basis"?

Not to hand Calyx... I could find it if you really want it. Was just to counter that in some way the labour govt when they were only in charge built 6 Council houses.... As they built thousands of housing association homes through HAG funding.