WWYD if you were a Lib Dem supporter in this seat

[randomposterme]

I'm in the only seat in Scotland which has a Tory MP. I voted 'No' in the indyref and 'remain' in Brexit. I am really very tired of the SNP dogged obsession with independence. But a hard Brexit is now my top concern and fear.

To topple the Tory, I would need to vote SNP. There is no doubt my vote would be hijacked as tacit support for independence, when actually it would be a vote to topple a Tory seat.

I feel a bit like some Americans said they felt when presented with two unpalatable choices (in their opinion). I do think that those who couldn't stomach Clinton, and opted for Jill Stein or not voting at all, helped get Trump into power. In the same way, I can't stomach either SNP or Tory, but a Tory candidate supporting hard Brexit would be the 'Trump' result for me.

I presented this logic to DH who until this point had been adamant he'd vote Lib Dem this time, and his response was 'Oh god you're right'. We're now thinking we may have to vote SNP . We're rationalising we could still vote NO in indy2 if we still felt that way when it came - which it will.

But today I woke up wishing I had other choices.

WWYD?

Even if the SNP get indyref2, it doesn't mean they will win it. I would probably vote No again. I can't vote Tory on that argument.

I can't base my vote in THIS election on what MIGHT happen in a future election.

The SNP will still have to make a credible case (which they failed to do the last time around). And frankly, if they can make a credible case, I'll probably vote 'Yes'. That's how miserable I am about Brexit.

My only concern in this election is trying to get representation to moderate the extreme brexiteers in Westminster.

But why vote SNP? They want Brexit to happen, they want it to be a disaster and strengthen the case for independence. They have no interest in getting the best deal for the UK.

I'm in what was a safe Labour seat - SNP took it in the last election. Im voting SNP solely because the Tories had a significant increase in the local elections and I do not want the Tories to take this seat by splitting vote between Labour/ SNP. LD have 0 chance here. I like the SNPs policies on VAWG. I don't like their priorities in education or healthcare so I will always vote labour locally & for MSPs. However, Tory policy is so heinous forcing anyone not rich, white male and able bodied into poverty that we need a strong opposition. SNP have made commitments on issues around child poverty, which will hopefully make them an anti-austerity party as they lose the old white male guard.

"They want Brexit to happen, they want it to be a disaster and strengthen the case for independence."

I'm a No voter, and not the SNP's biggest fan, and I don't think this is true.
Initially, Sturgeon was using the threat of another Indy ref to push for a less damaging version of Brexit (staying within single market, etc). For various reasons, she must have realised that the current timing is not great for another referendum (oil price etc).
It looked to me like May and Sturgeon were calling each other's bluff.

When May made it clear that the devolved powers were to have absolutely no influence on the type of Brexit, and when she announced that the UK would leave the single market, Sturgeon announced that she wanted another referendum.

A chaotic, disastrous Brexit would make it much harder for Scotland to operate as an independent country- one of the risks of dropping out without a deal is the prospect of trade barriers; If Scotland leaves the UK and joins the EU (big ifs!), how the hell could it manage with trade barriers between the UK and Scotland? If goods are stacking up at English ports, what does that mean for Scotland?

I think that the SNP DO want the best Brexit deal for Scotland, although they will never stop wanting independence.

I don't think Brexit is good for the SNP. If it fails which it will it makes it easy for their opponents to point out that so-called 'Project Fear' is actually 'Project Fact'. It may make Scottish voters wary of making the same mistake of ignoring expert advice.

The whole 'talking Scotland down' thing was key to whipping up nationalist feelings in indy1. The SNP have a much harder case to make second time around.

I'm with squishy: I think there's been a lot of posturing between May and Sturgeon, and I think Sturgeon showed her cards far too soon and she's effectively snookered herself.

After seeing Damien Green on Andrew Marr today my decision to vote SNP (vomit) has been cemented. The Tories are disgusting.

In my case, if expert advice was independence would be good, I'd be fine with voting Yes. I don't think they can make that case though. Brexit has really soured my feelings about the union. My opposition to Independence is now purely pragmatic and based on economic arguments. Same for all my No voting friends.

Last time around, voting No was both a heart and head decision for me. Now, I still think that independence would be bad for Scotland from a rational point of view, but emotionally I am much more sympathetic to the Yes side. I will still vote No though, obviously. Because (like random) I want to base my vote on pragmatic, economic arguments.

Alex Salmond's face the night of the eu referendum told me all I need to know about the SNP's attitude to Brexit.

Voting SNP is playing with fire if you don't want Scotland to separate from the UK. Vote lib dem, labour, anybody but the SNP.

Exactly, trixy

In what way are we 'playing with fire'?

I can only assume the risk of being burned is that people might vote 'Yes', so the suggestion to avoid this risk would be to avert any chance they might vote yes by denying a chance for indyref2.

This is essentially undemocratic, in my view. You can't force a majority to live according to the demands of a minority.

The SNP would still need to persuade voters in indyref2. Unless they can make a compelling economic case, I'd still be voting 'No'.

Yup, squishy, I've lost the 'heart' connection to the union as well. Which is actually quite something because I was evangelical about it. But I think everyone in England who voted Brexit pretty much chose Brexit over the Union because they were warned Brexit could lead to further attempts by the SNP. It damaged my loyalty. Have to say every single No voter I know feels the same way.

I think there's a lot of people feeling the same way south of the border too.

Personally I don't think Corbyn's policies are going to be great for the country. Too many tax & spend policies which I don't think are realistic.

But at the same time I see the Tory vision for Brexit as terrible too.

So what to do?? In my area the Lib Dems have virtually no chance of toppling the incumbent and will be lucky to finish fourth.

Yes we can just vote no again. However another referendum would be very damaging for Scotland IMO. Both economically and socially. Scot gov's obsession with the constitution is having an adverse effect on many aspects of Scotland from education to the NHS. That's what I mean by playing with fire.

If I were you nice guy I'd vote for whoever stood most chance if toppling Tory (unless it was UKIP or something like that). Brexit is permanent; Corbyn is not. For me this election is all about Brexit. The Tories seem to need reminding that nearly 50% didn't want Brexit.

So what to do?? In my area the Lib Dems have virtually no chance of toppling the incumbent and will be lucky to finish fourth

Same here which is why I will be spoiling my ballot.

I wish there was a none of the above box.

I would also vote lib dem. I'm not in Scotland but I am a staunch unionist and even though I am also a staunch Remainer I could never vote snp to get rid of the tory. They are both equally objectionable in different ways. I would vote for my preferred party and whatever may be may be (even if it's theresa may!)

Have you investigated "voteswap" sites? You need an SNP voter in a Tory / lib dem marginal and then you vote SNP and they vote Lib dem.

That's an interesting idea, but it would require putting a fair amount of trust in a stranger, wouldn't it mumoftwoyoungkids? I would vote swap with a friend, but I don't think I would do it with someone from the internet (especially with all the paranoia about political trolls around at the moment!)

I think the point of "voteswap" is that the party that you vote for is one that you recognise has the best chance of beating the party you really want beaten and (although doesn't fully represent your ideals) you don't hate them.

The voteswap just makes you feel better about being pragmatic rather than idealistic!

My brother (a lib dem supporter) did it with a labour supporter back in 2010. Although he doesn't know for sure he and his "opposite number" did email each other to confirm that they had voted.

Vote swap does seem quite open to abuse though. After all you have no proof as you which way they have voted.

Have you investigated "voteswap" sites? You need an SNP voter in a Tory / lib dem marginal and then you vote SNP and they vote Lib dem.

Is it only avaliable in Scotland?

That makes more sense!
I suppose I would do it if I didn't mind the idea that the other party didn't honour the agreement - a way to make myself feel better about a tactical vote, iyswim.

I'm a Lib Dem supporter and I'm planning to vote Lib Dem. Even though they came 5th in my constituency last time. I know it's a wasted vote but I just can't bear the idea of voting for any other party.

Piglet I'm not sure where it is available - definitely in Englamd (my brother lives in England and has done it) and a quick Google and it looks like SNP is included as one you can offer so presumably Scotland. As I said - I think the aim is more about making you feel better about being pragmatic than anything else.

I've never used it myself - I'm in a Tory safe seat - although if every other voter all agreed what we would vote for then there is a chance that that party would get nearly half the votes the Tory guy got.

This has been a very helpful post but I'm in exactly the same position. SNP seat here but conservative very close behind and likely to win if their local election results are to go on.

I would vote labour preferably but it's a complete wasted vote here. I think I'm going to have to vote SNP, we are going to get Indy ref 2 I think anyway. I want as much opposition to conservative in Westminster as possible.

I've found a voter on that voteswap who will vote labour for me! That helps