that little red book 'joke'

[DinosaursRoar]

apologies if this is being discussed elsewhere - couldn't find it.

I'm really surprised that McDonnell didn't think how badly this could go for him, it's obviously going to be presented not as "Shadow Chancellor makes cutting joke about Osborne's friendly relationship with China" but "Shadow Chancellor quotes Mao".

I know the super slick New Labour style isnt in favour anymore, but really, there must be a middle ground... or is this actually a really clever plan I'm not seeing?

And today the Daily Mail have dragged up footage of Diane Abbot speaking in 2008 saying that Mao "did more good than harm" on the Daily Politics show. at the time, she was pretty much irrelevant so didn't matter what she said, but her romantic link with Corbyn coupled with putting her in a senior role, makes those sorts of statements important. Now they've got 2 front benchers they can link to Mao support (and McDonnell's stunt is being seen as just him quoting Mao).

The whole mess is making Corbyn look weak and gifting the middle ground/right of labour to the Tories, or at best, the LibDems (who I bet can't believe their luck) - which just reduces the chances of the Tories losing next time round.

Prime Minister Osborne next time round then?

'The whole mess is making Corbyn look weak'

Yes, that is what the media is doing as well as all the internal sabotage and coups within his own party.

The best one is Sky yesterday. They mentioned that Corbyn is isolated over the Isis bombing vote and while they said that they showed some video of him, looking like Steptoe, rough and bedraggled, wandering alone through the mean streets as if he was on his way to lay his last fiver on the horses. They didn't have to say anything, they only had to show the video. It is classic comedy, him and McDonnell, Steptoe and Son. It doesn't create an inspiring image for the people. But it might backfire if the people feel sorry for Corbyn, but I doubt it. People want leadership, not shambles.

McDonnell had a lot of points that he could have made but instead chose to score a point/ joke. He has appalling comic pace /timing but is too vain to have learned this well into middle age.

I wish he'd fuck off.

Ken Livingstone too. His Question Time performance was so arrogant.

On my vent about Diane Abbott has got lost in the ether. It's for the best..

All credit to Hilary Benn: the only grown up among the Labour front bench.

I don't like Hilary Benn, strikes me as a toady trying to undermine Corbyn.

The bad news is that Andrew Pierce, the senior Daily Mail jourmnalist/assistant editor, said on Sky News yesterday that he has a feeling that Benn may be on manoeuvres to try and become Labour leader. I think Labour will be finished if toadies lead it because the public won't like them and nor will all of the Labour party members who backed Corbyn so strongly. The Tories will like the toadies and so will the Blairites and the media, but I think it will be the end of Labour for good and a new breakaway party will have to be formed.

He is clearly not on team Corbyn but seemed to be doing his best given dire circumstances!

Yes, I guess so, but also doing his best to undermine Corbyn.

I don't mind Corbyn and even McDonnell. My problem with McDonnell is he is weak and wants to ingratiate himself, and Corbyn is desperately weak with his "kinder" politics.

Corbyn shoukd sack the lot of them and replace them with new faces that the public are not sick of, all the toadies out and replaced with real leftwingers. Then he should oppose Cameron with real leftwing policies. He should whip all the Blairites and useful Shadow Cabinet toadies for the coming vote on bombing Isis so that the whole lot resign en masse and the public won't have to see their faces on TV any more. But weak, ingratiating McDonnell suggested on Any Questions last night that he was in favour of a free vote in the "new politics". He will let Labour down because he hasn't got the strength to act.

Blairite, Phil Collins, whom I don't like, was on Newsnight last night and was totally correct when he said that Corbyn has never done politics, all he has done is talk. Now he has to act, and he is not up to it. That is the tragedy of the Labour Party. The left has been voted in by members but they are far too weak to act and so Labour will return to the toadies who will vote with Cameron on the Welfare Bill or going to war or any other important issue and the public won't vote for them.

They said on Newsnight that there is talk of a coup against Corbyn by the toadies if UKIP win the Oldham by-election next Thursday. So Labour's short experment with a real left wing leader may be over quite soon unfortunately.

John McDonnell is 64, you could only call him Middle Aged if you expect people to regularly make it to their 120's. Which is another point, Mao was read in 60s/70s, by reminding people of it, he's also reminding people of his age and generation, one older than Cameron/Osborne. They are middle aged, Corbyn and McDonnell are, well, old, in any other job, they'd be winding down to retirement or more likely retired already.

David Cameron is cozying up to China, and sealing deals meaning we all pay double for our electricity. Not McDonnell.

You lot are nit-picking. Think bigger picture please.

I don't think Hilary Benn is the one to watch, although I suspect he will benefit a lot from Labour's shambles over Syria. Even if he is the one to make the challenge, it's not usually the one who wields the knife that gets the reward. It's Tom Watson who will have his eyes on the leadership prize, and he's the one with the Unions behind him.

You lot are nit-picking. Think bigger picture please.

We aren't nit picking. Actually, it rather matters if your behaviour is so naïve that:

• people who aren't focused on politics don't hear your message
• people who have half an interest think you're a Mao supporter
• people who follow this stuff worry for your judgement.

You don't get to run a democratic country unless you convince enough people you're a safe and mature pair of hands. School boy errors like this don't help them do that.

" but also doing his best to undermine Corbyn"

Tbh, Corbyn, McDonnell and Livingstone are doing it to themselves. Amateur student politics at best.

Libraries is right - if the idea is to woo the non-voters, how is this likely to get them interested? It just looks like yet another bunch of old white middle class men playing point scoring and squabbling amongst themselves and not really offering anything interesting or new. how is this sort of politics going to grab anyone's imagination who doesn't currently engage? How is this going to win over anyone who voted Tory, or LibDem or SNP at the last election?

This is not nitpicking or press spin.

I am crying into my cocoa on a nightly basis right now! OK maybe I am making a McDonnell style joke there..

The DUP's Nigel Dodds made a scathing attack which summed up how many nonCorbynistas are viewing this front bench pairing. Now you may find it frustratingly fuddy duddy but everyone gets to vote, not just activists.