Anti-austerity march Manchester.

[Tootyfilou]

Any one else attending? I know quite a few MNs marched in the London demo in June. I am goong with my local peoples Assembly.
Weather looks a bit dodgy. Never been to Manchester really looking forward to it.
Sits back to await comments about left wing nutters and the futiry of public protest

Possibly Bear but not in this post, so not really relevant here. Lots of us would take a dim view of expecting migrants/refugees/Syrians not to be 'feisty' ...

Forgive me for being irrelevant.

Sheesh.

And I'm Exit. Not Bear.

Just saying.

How lovely that you all had a great time. Can anyone who attended say what you actually achieved by marching? Apart from blocking parts of Manchester for those going about their daily business of course.

Thank you silver it really was a great day with such a cross sectional representation of the population.
In answer to your question, what did we acheive?
Unfortunately 60-80,000 taking to the steets in manchester, many having travelled the length or bredth of the country, didnt halt the tory conference neither will it directly prevent them from passing through the many terrible policies they have in store for the British people.

But, and here is the big but, here is what we all must remember. We live in a democracy, but democracy is built on more than just voting obce every general election.
As ordinary people, by which i mean, the 99% of people who live in britain we have a limited number of ways to try and have our say. Political protest is one of these. And this is what it did acheive, it gained attention in the media, thereby raising peoples consciousness, it gained the attention and also support of many of the people of manchester, and finally it showed the Tories the feelings of so many.

So much of what we take for granted in britain was fought for by ordinary people, doing things such as protest, from the chartists to the suffragettes. But these things dont happen overnight, it is a struggle and a fight for ordinary people to exersise their democratic rights, and one of the many terrible things the Tories are doing is to make this even harder or even illegal.

Well it certainly raised my awareness.

The Chartists and the Suffragettes did not have a vote I believe. It was a vote they were fighting for.

The people of the UK voted in May for a Conservative government.

So you don't like it - hey, spit on your enemies.

Following the comments made by jeremy hunt yesterday, highlighting just how far removed the tories are and also highlighting the true view they have of working class people, it is astonishing to me that a party composed of primarily upper class elitists who are only out to further their class's own ends could ever be democratically elected.
But hey ho here we are, however the facts remain

1. They only recieved 26% of votes cast and have a small majority of 12
2. The point of a democracy is people can protest to any government

Also i have two questions I genuinely want to know your answers to

1. do you think as british citizens our voices begin and end with a vote every 5 years?
2. what do you feel the conservative do for you?

No I don't believe our voices begin and end with a vote every 5 years. But I also don't believe that calling people scum, spitting on them and intimidating them when they are going about their lawful business is an appropriate way to behave.

I wouldn't say the conservatives do anything for me personally but I believe more in a free market economy and light touch government than a bloated public sector.

I am taking a wild guess that you weren't actually in attendance on sunday
I completely agree with you that spitting at people is a disgusting thing to do. But the problem is that behaviour like that by a handful of people out of tens of thousands is picked up by the media and made to seem as if thats what the march was about.
The march was attended by students, teachers, nurses, doctors, civil servants, university lecturers, mothers, fathers, grandparents, children, ordinary people who only want one thing ro try and make the county we live in a better place for EVERYONE.

Thanks for answering, can i ask you another question? So why is it that you believe strong free markets and a light touch government is better for society as a whole?

bear why do you believe in a free market economy? Also, although the conservatives do nothing for you personally, who do you think they do anything for (apart from their fellow toffs of course)?

Tootyfilou

1. They only received 26% of votes cast and have a small majority of 12
Yes but fortunately a majority of 12 is sufficient to put them in power.

2. The point of a democracy is people can protest to any government
Indeed you can, but not sure how effective calling people scum, spitting and throwing eggs at them will help. I have seen people say negative things about Corbyn on here but that is as nothing compared to the really vile, disgusting things I have seen written about Tories. Why do left wingers do that? It makes them look so stupid.

Also i have two questions I genuinely want to know your answers to

1) do you think as British citizens our voices begin and end with a vote every 5 years?

Well General Elections are the only time you can effect a change in Government. Nothing to stop you protesting but I honestly do not believe it will change a thing.

2) what do you feel the conservative do for you?
I'm retired and have been disabled for many years although I worked full time from the age of 16 to 59 when I was medically retired. I am not rich as all left wingers imagine Tory voters to be, quite the contrary. I'm a firm believer in being self sufficient as long as one is able and believe the Tories are best for our economy. I don't believe the country has the resources to have an open door policy to immigrants and think the money spent on welfare is out of control. So all reasons for voting for the Tories.

PS I'm voting Out in the EU referendum so don't agree with everything the Government says

No. I wasn't there on Sunday. Cos I don't give a shit about anyone.

And it's Exit for fucks sake.

A few things here silver, unfortunately whatever your personal opinion about the power of people's protest, historical evidence proves your wrong, nothing we have achieved was handed willingly, there has always always been opposition, and things have had to be fought for using protest as one tool, be it civil rights, universal suffrage, or workers rights such as sick pay and holiday.

You are also wrong to say that left wingers think all conservative voters are rich, if this was the case they would never be in power because there are simply not a majority of rich people in the uk.

I am always intrigued by the answer of self sufficency. What does this really mean, truly are any of us "self sufficient ". Unless you live on a patch of land where you grow your own veg, rear your own animals, generate your own electricity, harness your own water supply, heal yourself when you are ill, educate yourself and only travel on your own personally dug roads you are not self sufficient.
We all live in a society, this gives us the benefits of civilization, infrastructure, healthcare, education, art and literature. These benefit all who live in society. But the way in which our society is structured means this, most people work, and work hard just like you did, they are payed usually the very minimum that can be justified and there life is basically a struggle to afford basic life necessities. There are then the very few in society who mostly through circumstance of birth are very wealthy, and benefit from the fact that their wealth allows them power over those who do not have as much.
We all believe that people shoul contribute as much as they can to society, but some people through no fault of their own, need a safety net, and the support of those in society who can.
Im sure you would also agree that, although it may not be obvious, there are many ways to contribute to society, not just through work.
Once again I have absolutely no truck with behaviour such as spitting or violence, totally condem it. However, our media, that is owened and controlled by people whos vested interest lies with keeping the Tories in power, always chose to highlight these events, as though they were representative of the demonstrators as a whole, rather than focus on why 80,000 had taken to the streets.

400,000 attended the Countryside March in 2002.

And ......

Im not sure what your point is?

You were talking numbers. Like they matter.

Re the 2015 General Election, if anyone cares, the way I see it the Conservatives got 36.9% of the vote (from a 66.1%) turnout versus 36.1% at the last election - its just that I keep hearing that 26% figure and no one will ever correct it from the Labour movement - and thus ends up in socialist folklaw.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2015

They won.

If Labour had achieved that result would there be the same moaning?

OK Tooty I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about what protests achieve. Personally I have never seen a protest change anything, but obviously you have.

I suppose I mean being self sufficient as an adult. Eg, and this is getting very personal, for the last 20 years of my working life I was in considerable pain and during that time had three hip replacements - unfortunately they were not able to replace my spine. But I was determined to support myself. I was unable to have children and was single for long periods. Some days I would come home from work and cry while climbing the stairs to my flat on my hands and knees. I don't tell you this for pity but to explain how determined I was to support myself. Every time I saw my doctor he would say that I should be medically retired but I didn't give in until I was 59.

As I said in my last post I think, I support being self sufficient as long as one is able, so of course I recognise there are those who cannot.

Well the media may highlight those who spit or throw eggs but I was referring to people on here who say the most vile things about Tories or particular MPs. If you want an example I can give you one - this is from another current thread and personally I think the person is sick:

"Always looks pasty and sweaty. Like he has spent the morning masturbating over the coffins of dead poor people. The utter shit."

There are many many other examples I could give you but I think that has pretty much hit rock bottom.

I can understand intense dislike but I have never seen similar vile comments about labour. Why is that do you think?

Thank you for sharing that silver. You have obviously faced very difficult circumstances with courage.
I cannot say why people make remarks like that.
I do know that when your life, your families life and your whole community is affected by Tory policies it can make people very angry. This anger can expressed by attacking the person rather than the policies. Whilst I think that lots of the Tory cabinet are thoroughly unpleasant individuals, I prefer to engage in political debate about politics rather than personities.
I disagree that socialists do not get insulted though. Jeremy Corbyn has certainly had his fair share in the last few weeks!

I disagree that socialists do not get insulted though. Jeremy Corbyn has certainly had his fair share in the last few weeks!

I suspect that a LOT of that nasty abuse came from the right wing of Corbyn's own party either answering the abuse of his supporters, or angry their party was likely to become unelectable - for most others, it was a fascinating event, like watching a train crash in slow motion.

I admit that I have a lot of anger towards Labour MPs, and similar to you I like to debate politics, but unlike you, I don't question their personalities, just their competence/record.

Just because Corbyn uses 'caring' and 'decent' soundbites - thereby accusing the Tories in particular of the opposite - in reality it gives Labour no moral high ground, quite the opposite.

As they knew/said drastic cuts in benefits/welfare were needed to the monster they created, but either due to electoral calculation or plain electoral cowardice, they left it unreformed throughout their administration even when the tax receipts from a financial bubble funding the extra spending, burst.

One day Labour may try to correct their own policies as they didn't by 1979 or 2010, but it would tarnish those self awarded halos ONLY worn by those who are 'decent' or 'care' - and they need to hang on to that purity of intend and be vile to their opposition - as its so much more convenient than look back at their own failures in office.

No I don't believe our voices begin and end with a vote every 5 years. But I also don't believe that calling people scum, spitting on them and intimidating them when they are going about their lawful business is an appropriate way to behave.

Well, if a relative of yours had been killed or made homeless by the Tory 'reforms', for example, you might take it upon yourself to also call them 'scum'.

If a relative of mine was in danger of being made homeless I would offer them a home.

bear you woukd have to have a big enough home or a spare house in order to make such an offer!

I've just heard Cameron say in his speech something like;

Let Labour lecture on poverty, let the Conservatives get people out.

In other words there is a big picture and there will be many if this and if that, even actual cases that unfortunately slipped through a government/local authority net - and for those just totally fixated on thinking the poor are best served by a crashing economy and also refuse to look at any positive going on for hundreds of thousands of people - may I suggest you change your glass, from being 'half empty'?