If Jeremy Corbyn is 'out of touch' why are his views so popular with the UK public?

[blacksunday]

If anyone is out of touch with public opinion, says Ian Sinclair, it is not Jeremy Corbyn but the three other Labour leadership contenders.

“I don’t bother writing about Fox News. It is too easy”, American dissident Noam Chomsky explained in 2010.

“What I talk about are the liberal intellectuals, the ones who portray themselves and perceive themselves as challenging power, as courageous, as standing up for truth and justice. They are basically the guardians of the faith. They set the limits. They tell us how far we can go. They say, ‘Look how courageous I am.’ But do not go one millimeter beyond that.”

The recent column about the Labour leadership contest from the Guardian’s highly influential Labour-supporting commentator Polly Toynbee provides a perfect example of Chomsky’s truism.

According to Toynbee, of the four hopefuls the Labour left candidate Jeremy Corbyn “is the free spirit, the outsider not playing by the usual political rules.” And that, apparently, is precisely the problem with the Member of Parliament for Islington North: “Unfettered by what a majority of voters beyond Islington might support in a real election, he’s a romantic, saying what no doubt many Labour members believe”.

Smearing by association, Toynbee dismisses Corbyn as “a 1983 man” and “a relic”. Voting for Corbyn “is ignoring the electorate”, according to Toynbee.

Having finished her demolition, Toynbee then literally erases Corbyn from the race, arrogantly debating the prospects of “the three main contenders” before settling on the shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper as the most promising candidate.

Toynbee’s argument echoes the feelings of a large section of the so-called progressive, liberal intelligentsia. “I could probably live with any of the other candidates”, noted Labour MP and BBC commentator Alan Johnson about Corbyn, likening his politics to electoral “suicide”.

Ditto the Guardian’s Martin Kettle (“Corbyn offers a programme of prelapsarian socialist purity”), the Telegraph’s Dan Hodges, (Corbyn is proof “crazy Labour is alive and well”) and Blairite foot soldier David Aaronovitch.

As Chomsky said: do not go “one millimetre beyond” the limits of acceptable debate.

------------

Corbyn's positions and the public

But how valid is Toynbee’s central criticism – that Corbyn is out of touch with public opinion? Let’s look at the polling data on some of Corbyn’s key political stances:

He supports a publicly run NHS, a position supported by 84 per cent of the public, according to a November 2013 YouGov poll.

He supports the nationalisation of the railways, a position backed by 66 percent of the public, including a majority of Conservative voters, according to the same poll.

He supports the nationalisation of the energy companies, a position supported by 68 percent of the public, including a majority of Conservative voters, according to the same poll.

He believes the Royal Mail should be publicly owned, a position supported by 67 percent of the public, according to the same poll.
He supports rent controls, a position supported by 60% of the public, including 42% of Conservatives, according to an April 2015 YouGov poll.

He opposes the retention of Trident nuclear weapons, a position John Curtice, Professor of Politics at Strathclyde University, notes is supported by a "smallish plurality" in "the majority of polls".

He strongly opposed the 2003 Iraq War, which was also opposed by the more than one million people who marched through London on 15 February 2003.

He has long pushed for the withdrawal of British troops from Afghanistan, a position favoured by 82 per cent of the public, according to a May 2014 YouGov poll.

--------

Who's out of touch?

So, contrary to Toynbee’s assertions, Corbyn’s key political positions are in actual fact supported by a majority of the British public. (And arguably the issues that Corbyn is out of step with public opinion on, such as immigration and welfare, are those that have been engulfed in huge amounts of media-driven ignorance).

In short, if anyone is out of touch with public opinion, it is not Corbyn but Toynbee, most of the liberal intelligentsia and the three other Labour leadership contenders.

www.stopwar.org.uk/news/is-jeremy-corbyn-the-unacceptable-romantic-face-of-british-politics

It is exactly that sort of hectoring, moral high ground crap that puts a lot of people off the left. Why not display a little humility and accept that other people can see the world in a different way to you? The vast majority of people in this country of whatever political persuasion (including most politicians) do not have bad or 'psychopathic' intentions towards their fellow citizens.

I've not backtracked. I've always called the Torys the party full of psychopathic scum. And indeed, that's what they are

So people that belong to the tory party (not just MPs etc) are 'psychopathic scum'

Horrid thing to say. No wonder those that do vote tory sometimes don't come out and say so, if this type of stuff is thrown at them.

Oh and I am a Labour supporter.

I don't mind being called psychopathic scum by one of the great unwashed, ignorant, workshy Marxists who pretend to be socialist because they don't have the courage to stand up and be counted.

The real sociopaths are in the labour party who consider only immediate gratification in their lust for power, they care nothing for the future.

I currently live under a socialist government who are presiding over falling education standards, a centralising agenda, mounting poverty, a failing NHS and growing state intrusion. If you want to see the future under a Corbyn led labour government look at Scotland under the SNP and consider if you want laws like the Named Guardian for every child from conception to 18 (despite wanting the vote at 16).

I've always called the Torys the party full of psychopathic scum. And indeed, that's what they are.

Aren't Labour supporters such lovely empathetic people.
I note that the first reply you made was "be quiet" to someone who dared to disagree with you. You don't care what people think, you just want people to agree with you because you know best.
How very Old Labour. arf

Corbyn is popular with the left wingers who were muzzled by Blair. Now they have a sniff of a socialist leader they're out screaming and shouting like it's VE day.

The reality is that whilst his policies all sound great in theory. Socialism in practice doesn't work. And the vast majority of the population knows this. The country has taken a step to the right so Labour lurching to the left is political suicide when it comes to election day.

Right now Corbyn has a weird mix of people rooting for him. The left wingers who want a new champion. And the Tories/right wingers who are rooting for him to win too since in doing so the Tories are almost guaranteed a third term.

purits-

Aren't Labour supporters such lovely empathetic people.hmm

I'm not a Labour supporter. I am empathetic, though, which is precisely why I hate the Tories. I hate the cruelty and death being inflicted upon the poorest and most vulnerable people in society.

I note that the first reply you made was "be quiet" to someone who dared to disagree with you.

Where was this? Anyway, I debate with people all the time. This doesn't stop me calling a spade a spade.

You don't care what people think, you just want people to agree with you because you know best.

Frankly, I just want to stop the attacks the Tories are engaging on working people, the poor, the vulnerable and the unemployed.

How very Old Labour. arf

That's nice. The fact that you cannot conceive that of anyone criticising the psychopath party without being a Labour supporter is illustrative of the poor shape of democracy in this country.

Two-party politics and the FPTP system has left most people unimpressed and unrepresented, whilst a minority party is able to govern and inflict reactionary laws on everyone else.

niceguy-

The reality is that whilst his policies all sound great in theory. Socialism in practice doesn't work. And the vast majority of the population knows this. The country has taken a step to the right so Labour lurching to the left is political suicide when it comes to election day.

Again: Corbyn isn't a 'Socialist'. He's a Social Democrat. And many of his policies are not only popular with the public, but pretty mainstream in many european and other Western nations.

He's not that radical. He appears radical because the debate has shifted so far to the right after decades of neo-liberalism.

You'll also note: Capitalism doesn't work. ;)

I'm increasingly annoyed by all these people (I've seen loads elsewhere) repeatedly claiming that the vast majority of the country know socialism - or indeed any left-of-centre policies - doesn't work because look they did so badly on the last election.

Neither of those ideas are true. Most polls are suggesting that most people want to see left policies brought back, eg nationalization of railways. As for them losing the election so badly go and look at the vote percentage figures. They were not that far behind the tories - just 6%. Doesn't count as a catastrophic loss imo. In fact, they actually gained more of the vote percentage from the election before than the tories did - 1.5% gain over 0.8% gain. The fact that their gains didn't translate into seats this time (Blair's 3rd victory was equally questionable) isn't much to crow about, it just shows how broken our so-called democracy is.

My own feeling is that the overwhelming prediction of possible left-wing coalition victory brought out the right wing voters in droves. And they still only managed a 6% extra vote percentage.

Your confidence and slanders of the British people is entirely misplaced.

or are. Confidence is, slanders are.

I don't think he's out of touch. I only wish the Labour party would stop fighting each other & start pulling in the same direction. We walked past this poster the other day - my three year old DD understood it. Why can't they.

Y'all want to have a look at this.... kittysjones.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/inverted-totalitarianism-and-neoliberalism-oh-dear/

I am extraordinarily grateful to this writer for nailing down and articulating exactly what makes me so nervous about the attacks on Corbyn, and the constant comments from people who think only centre politics - by which they actually mean right-of-centre - are the only possible way to go. I disagree that it's only the tories who are the problem, Labour have been playing along too, there is I believe a professional political class that has been creates, but the rest is superb.

There is nothing inevitable about the current socioeconomic system we find ourselves in. It has been deliberately created and can be undone to orrow There are other ways of living. Not only can we find them, we need to find them urgently. Go Corbyn.

I hate the cruelty and death being inflicted upon the poorest and most vulnerable people in society.

Evidence please.

Sounds like more of the same old scaremongering and bullshittery from a hysterical left....

"IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou"

Benefits sanctions are killing people.

Please, if you feel like arguing with this first of do a little research (hint, Google) the effects of sanctions on some of the most vulnerable people in our society.

No, if you're going to make sweeping statements like that, please provide a link to the evidence.

I've got better things to do than run around after other people's conspiracy theories.....

There have been a few links on mumsnet and you could always google, but since you ask try this for starters.

johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2013/10/27/benefit-sanctions-are-state-terrorism-and-must-be-stopped-without-exceptions/

It's got links to a CAB survey from 2 years ago showing the misery sanctions were causing then. They're still doing so today. Johnny Void has loads of links into other areas that you can explore.

Here's also a link to the transcript of oral evidence presented to a parliamentary enquiry data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/work-and-pensions-committee/benefit-sanctions-policy-beyond-the-oakley-review/oral/17722.pdf

It says somewhere, I think on p. 24, that the DWP manual actually states that they've always known sanctions would have deleterious effects on health. And they don't care.

I think I said upthread, or somewhere anyway - benefits are the minimum amount needed to survive. What do you expect to happen when they're taken away exactly?

You could also google Black Triangle campaign for the disabled, which had a list of some if the people who've been killed by sanctions one way or another. With mumsnet's IT problems at the moment I can only do 1 link per post. That should be enough to start you off.

This is no conspiracy theory. I only wish it were.

The results of the survey portray a truly horrific account of the destitution and human misery that this regime – introduced by Labour and then enthusiastically expanded by Iain Duncan Smith – has inflicted on people.

So it's not just Tory Scum is it? It's Labour Scum too.

Is it the government (which is transitory) or the DWP (which is permanent) causing these alleged issues?

Why do you think that Corbyn as leader would make a difference? When have Labour ever rolled back a "devastating" Tory policy when they took over the reins of power?

Never

Because they like to maintain the "we wouldn't do that" image, whilst actually knowing it's what has to be done to keep the country running.....

You'll also note: Capitalism doesn't work. ;)

I agree. Capitalism is hugely wasteful and thrives on human greed.

BUT it works better than the alternatives. So until someone can invent a new system it's the best of a bad bunch.

And many of his policies are not only popular with the public
Correction: "And many of his policies are not only popular with the public labour supporters....."

The system we are operating under at the moment is not simply Capitalism but Neoliberalism.

It is the cause of the financial disasters worldwide and of immense suffering as those in power use neoliberalism principles with the aim of consolidating power and wealth in the hands of an ultra rich ruling elite

Although actually those in power are quite happy to move away from pure Neoliberalism.when it benefits them, eg to ignore the core concept of small-statism when it suits them (eg bank bailouts and subsidising a supposedly privatised UK railway system).

The idea that a powerful elite are manipulating our politics and media to exploit us and get richer and more powerful while we all get poorer and give up the rights we've won over the last century or so may sound like tin foil hat stuff, but actually this is what is happening.

It's simply not true that there is no alternative.

For a decent description of what Neoliberalism is, see What is Neoliberalism

IknowIam - 'alleged issues'? Do you seriously doubt the word of the CAB, every other organisation that's done research into this - including those taking that research to parliament itself, the DWP's own manual, all the people up and down the country living in poverty with experience of sanctions? What exactly would it take to convince you?

Yes, I do think Labour in the past, new labour under Blair, is as much to blame as the tories. As kaftanlady says, it's neoliberalism which is at fault, and neoliberalism is driven by all members of our political class. The whole class is an issue, not one group or another.

Go look at that kittyjones blog post I linked upthread about how the narrative is being controlled, a narrative you seem to have swallowed.

Will Corbyn change things? I sure as hell hope so, he's the best hope I've seen for a long time. If he betrays us now the way Blair, the Lib Dems and the rest of the Westminster crowd did there will be hell to pay, socially, economic and environmentally. I'd rather give him the chance than not, because if something doesn't change we'll be in that hell scenario anyway.

niceguy-

You'll also note: Capitalism doesn't work. ;)

I agree. Capitalism is hugely wasteful and thrives on human greed.

BUT it works better than the alternatives. So until someone can invent a new system it's the best of a bad bunch.

Capitalism exists because of power and greed, not a lack of a better way of organising.

People try to organise things more rationally all the time but are fought by the state, media, and police.

And many of his policies are not only popular with the public

Correction: "And many of his policies are not only popular with the public labour supporters....."

No, the public - unless you think two-thirds of the public are Labour supporters.

Corbyn's policies are not even that radical. It's just that after 20 years of neo-liberalism, any hint of soical-democratic policies or regulation of unbridled casino Capitalism is labelled 'radical' by the press.

Corbyn isn't anti-Capitalist. The policies he is proposing are pretty mainstream in many developed Western economies.

'Corbyn's policies are not even that radical.'

Are you kidding?

The headline in tomorrow's paper is Corbyn saying, "I will bring back Clause 4" and he says he would prefer to leave NATO. You can't get much more radical than that. There are a lot of 1 per centers and their servants who will be spitting tacks at this stuff.

"Jeremy Corbyn to 'bring back Clause Four': Contender pledges to bury New Labour with commitment to public ownership of industry"

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-to-bring-back-clause-four-contender-pledges-to-bury-new-labour-with-commitment-to-public-ownership-of-industry-10446982.html

Not radical?

Can you imagine the panic among the Oxbridge political class of servants to the billionaires, lobbyists and corporations? Can you imagine the 24 hour non-stop bollockings they are all getting from big business and billionaires? Have you ever seen Blair and the Blairites perspire as much as they are doing now?

Not radical? Short of Che Guevara, it doesn't get much more radical than Corbyn, which is why Blair was wheeled out.

I don't understand why can't left of the centre be treated as bonafide Labour party members or supporter. Many such people stopped supporting Labour in Blair's time; and in Jeremy Corbyn are able to reconnect with Labour.