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Politics

Scottish Labour seems to be imploding

81 replies

AgentProvocateur · 25/10/2014 10:03

Johann Lamont resigns because she feels there's too much interference from London, and the Scottish party should be autonomous. The irony!

The ScotLabs are in a policy void, and are a party of political pygmies. There is no obvious successor to Johann Lamont, who was a particularly uninspiring, bitter leader who was more interested in putting down the SNP than putting forward any ideas. They've lost their core support, and I think they are in terminal decline.

OP posts:
OOAOML · 30/10/2014 22:32

youGov poll has SNP 43% and Labour 27%.

OOAOML · 30/10/2014 22:34

The 4 Labour seats also assumed uniform countrywide swing, which is unlikely. Of course likely increased turnout could mess with the pollster's models. No rest for Prof Curtice yet!

OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub · 30/10/2014 22:43

Oh, of course it's not really going to be that we send 54 SNP MPs to WM, but give us disappointed Yessers a wee moment of glee, eh? Grin

Politics hasn't been this much fun for as long as I can remember... And my memory goes back a fair while.

OOAOML · 31/10/2014 00:48

I joined Twitter - lots of yes glee there! Wink

Can't remember if you said how old you were - had the feeling you were younger than me?

OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub · 31/10/2014 01:36

LOL, are we going to have a bit of competitive "I'm older than you"? Grin I'm 52, and have been interested in politics (initially, as a sort-of adult, via Spare Rib, when I had an after-school job in RS McColl and spotted it on the shelves) since about, um, 1977. Was very lefty in my youth, and a Labour (and once Commie, and sometimes list SSP in more recent days) voter till Tony took over. While I was pleased at getting a Lab WM gvt, I had my doubts about him re Clause 4, and he (and all WM gvts since) simply followed Thatcherite policies, so I haven't voted Labour since.

But I had political awareness earlier than that, my dad was a great one for shouting at the telly/inviting canvassers into the house. My mum, to this day, addresses envelopes for the Tories (dad was Tory, but Old Skool, he died in 1980), takes a lift to the polling station from them, and has voted for Ming for years...

She said No, btw, she's in her 80's, if that counts.

And yourself?

OOAOML · 31/10/2014 08:08

41 - you win!

I grew up in an area where they used to say people would vote for a fence post if it was painted blue. Never voted Tory in my life and have lots of vivid memories of the Thatcher era. Generally voted labour in my early elections, then got disenchancted and have voted Lib Dem (thankfully not 2010 or since, I would be so disappointed if I had, after Nick Clegg sold himself out so cheaply), Green and even SNP in recent years (although clearly the SNP have lost me as a potential voter now Wink).

OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub · 31/10/2014 10:50

Whippersnapper! [shakes walking stick] Grin

I know what you mean about Nick Clegg, he must have scunnered so many people with the decisions he's made. Patrick Harvie is doing a brilliant job for the Greens, and it'll either be them or SSP who get my list vote in 2016. I'm in what has been a Labour stronghold, but with events unfolding as they are, who knows come May?

FannyFifer · 31/10/2014 12:11

I'm only a young thing compared to you old gimmers. Wink

OOAOML · 31/10/2014 13:07

I really don't get why Nick Clegg sold out so cheaply. He knew he was going to have to give up on key pledges (made when people assumed there was little chance of the Lib Dems actually being expected to deliver them) but for a few days he had quite a lot of bargaining power, and surely he could have got a better deal? I'm particularly surprised he accepted a vote on AV, which he must have known wasn't going to be a popular PR option.

Obviously I'm against his policies on independence Wink but agree Patrick Harvie is doing a brilliant job. I'm unlikely to vote Green in the near future though. And def not SSP, although that wouldn't have been on the cards for me anyway.

Labour stronghold here, but the MSP is stepping down (which is a shame, have quite a lot of dealings with him via parent council and he is good) so I think they will struggle with the changed political landscape and the fact that the new candidate has a track record in local politics that is, how shall we say, not likely to votes on a personal basis.

FannyFifer · 31/10/2014 13:15

What MSP is stepping down?

OOAOML · 31/10/2014 13:34

Will PM you Fanny. 'Tis someone retiring.

claig · 02/11/2014 08:39

Damien Mcride on Jim Murphy

"If he succeeds, you can bet on major changes to Scotland’s powers within the Union, and – by extension – for the powers held by Wales, London and the English regions. If he fails, the Union will simply break up.

With all that hanging on the job it’s easier to see why he wants it and, perhaps, there is a further prize in his sights.

If he can run Scotland without Miliband’s help, why not the rest of the country, too? ‘When I came round Buckingham Palace,’ Murphy said of his marathon run, ‘there was no sign saying finish: so I just kept running.’

With his single-minded determination, who knows where Slim Jim’s race will end?"

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2817346/As-Ed-faces-disaster-north-border-Labour-s-mafioso-stabbing-Scotland-makes-Macbeth-look-like-Mrs-Brown-s-Boys-death-Union.html

He would never win the public's votes across teh country. The mask of whispering Jim Murphy with his faux-sincerity and petulant irritation would soon slip and what lies underneath would soon be revealed.

OOAOML · 02/11/2014 10:38

Thanks Claig your contributions are always noticeable. Personally I don't form my opinions based on the Daily Mail, but I'm sure someone will find it useful.

claig · 02/11/2014 10:51

Thanks, I hope so

OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub · 02/11/2014 19:20

And now Darling is standing down as MP come May.

FannyFifer · 02/11/2014 19:26

Wondered where Darling had disappeared to, interesting.

OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub · 02/11/2014 19:47

Next stop, HoL? Services rendered, and all that.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 02/11/2014 21:02

I'd imagine so, except hasn't Labour promised to abolish the HoL like Ive not heard that before

Toadinthehole · 08/11/2014 03:05

The 2015 GE is going to be fascinating. The great significance to Scotland is that the Westminster parliament is the only body clearly capable of legislating for a) Scottish independence or b) a binding referendum on the subject or c) devo-max, federalism, home rule etc. As an aside, I expect some readers will disagree with my view, and as I am very interested in Scots constitutional law I would be interested in those reasons.

I'm only surprised that it has taken this long for the SNP to overtake Labour in the Westminster polls. Even twenty years ago, they were making a better fist than Labour at running stuff at local level.

Kudos also to Alex Salmond for taking the burning of his effigy in Lewes in the appropriate spirit.

I think the Lib Dems will hold at least 3 seats in Scotland. They will hold Orkney and Shetland, and Ross, Skye and Lochaber because the incumbents' majorities are big enough to survive a cull in vote (Fife North East is more vulnerable because Ming Campbell is not standing). They will also hold Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk because the SNP are too far back.

UKIP won't have a big impact in Scotland. Their share of the Euro vote reflects, as always, a signal to politicians rather than an indication of who voters would prefer in government.

However, the big question is undoubtably how many Labour seats the SNP take. This is one of the major questions of the election. I can't help thinking the SNP vote will come back a bit, but who knows? The other question is what effect UKIP will have south of the border. They are clearly able to take votes off all three parties; but probably the Tories more than either Labour or the Lib Dems. I predict that the Lib Dems will hang onto far more of their southern English seats than is generally predicted. With about one exception, the Tories are the challengers for these seats, but UKIP will cut into the Tory vote more than the Lib Dem vote, and Labour's vote will be squeezed. UKIP, for all their support, are simply heading for the same problem that the Liberals have traditionally faced: plenty of support, but not enough to finish first except in a few places. I imagine they might hang onto their by-election gains, the seat where Farage stands, and one other place. Given the unpopularity of the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, I don't think a repetition of the current coalition (or indeed a government with Tories in it) is likely.

So the result I'm expecting at this point is something like this:

Labour 310 odd
Conservative 260 odd
SNP 35 odd
Lib Dem 25 odd
NI unionist parties 9
NI other 8
Plaid Cymru 3
UKIP 4
Green 1

Result: hung parliament: no single party with 50%+1 of the seats.

The obvious outcome here is a Labour / Lib Dem coalition. However, Labour and Lib Dem numbers could easily be lower and the SNP's higher. The SNP ought to be thinking very carefully about what their strategy should be. They will presumably want, at least, further devolution of powers to Scotland and, at most, a second independence referendum. However, their demands will be ignored unless they are able to provide something in return. I expect they would prefer this to be a confidence and supply arrangement to Labour. A formal coalition (or indeed any sort of deal with the Tories) could result in them getting caught up in the mess of a government they do not control, as has happened to the Lib Dems (and I add at this point how very disappointed in how despite having fully two thirds of the Tory vote they have let themselves get pushed around). The other risk they have is either demanding too little and getting blamed for that, or demanding too much, resulting in a second general election being held, and being blamed for holding up the democratic process.

Because I'm in the southern hemisphere, I will be able to see the results come in in the morning. I will probably take annual leave from work.

OldLadyKnowsBeelzebub · 08/11/2014 03:40

I don't see the SNP at WM entering into any formal coalition with anyone, esp as they already have a longstanding policy of not voting on matters which affect only the rUK, not Scotland.

As I understand it (and I could be wrong) it was fairly recently agreed that WM elections could only be held in fixed terms, (5 years?) so no second GE could be held short of that time.

Glad you can take AL, I'll be sitting up all night! (But am SE, so no problems there Grin )

Toadinthehole · 08/11/2014 05:19

I understand that the SNP's policy is to abstain from votes on laws that concern only areas of the UK outside Scotland. A confidence and supply agreement would only concern matters that affect the whole UK, although there could be issues with specific budget allocations to individual ministries as I understand funding is allocated to Scotland in a block.

You raise an interesting point about the scheduling of Westminster elections. While I understand there is a plan to make GEs ridgedly every 4 years, if Parliament can't form a government, I'd be surprised if the Queen didn't retain the power to dissolve Parliament and require a fresh election.

OOAOML · 08/11/2014 10:02

I'm pretty sure rules were set around votes of no confidence and dissolving parliament - there have been times I've felt the coalition was shaky and clearly you would have to do something if it fell apart totally. I see the Lib Dems trying to separate themselves more, but think it is too late.

Problem with the SNP abstaining from votes that only concern Scotland, is that because of Barnett consequentials there are many votes that initially don't look as if they concern Scotland but they do (also Wales and Northern Ireland) because of spending/funding implications.

I think the SNP will do well in some current Labour seats, but not so well in the former Tory seats. I would actually (and I know that on politics threads I do keep on going on about the referendum) hope that people in Scotland can move on from voting based on independence politics, but the vote is still very recent and a lot of people are feeling raw (on both sides).

I'll probably take annual leave on the Friday. I went into work the day after the referendum after sitting up all night (and not sleeping properly for several nights before, and doing lots of door knocking in the last week of the campaign) and it was definitely a challenge by mid-afternoon.

Toadinthehole · 09/11/2014 07:37

Aren't the SNP's heartlands mostly former Tory territory? I'm thinking Angus, Aberdeenshire, Perthshire and so on.

OldLadyKnows · 22/11/2014 21:36

And now Gordy's standing down come May too. Sinking ship?

FannyFifer · 22/11/2014 22:13

He saw the Hydro today & shat it.

Good riddance. Another one bites the dust.