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Is Gove on his way out?

96 replies

OddBoots · 20/10/2013 09:27

There has been thread after thread here about his reforms and I don't think I am being unfair to say that the overwhelming majority of both parents and professionals think most of them are damaging so he can't claim to have public support.

Now there are scathing comments from Clegg about the changes. Free Schools are showing significant problems and academies not far behind them, is it too early to suggest that this is the beginning of the end for Gove or is that just too much wishful thinking?

OP posts:
claig · 20/10/2013 10:07

Wishful thinking.

Gove is a great performer. Gove could trounce the entire front bench of One Nation Labour in debate single-handed on every one of their briefs.

This is not "the beginning of the end" for Gove, this is just "the end of the beginning". His star will only rise higher and higher.

Gove is in fact a progressive. One of his heroes is the Italian Marxist founder of Euro-Communism, Antonio Gramsci. If Gove does not one day lead the Tory Party, then I feel sure he will lead the Labour Party instead.

There is no end to what he can achieve and to where he can go.

So if you think that Clegg's comments will be anything more than water off a duck's back to Gove, then that is wishful thinking.

By Jove, we have not seen the end of Gove!

DoctorTwo · 20/10/2013 10:33

He's an insufferable arse. Whenever I see him on the news I get an urge to kick the screen, which makes watching Pob impossible.

claig · 20/10/2013 10:35

Can you imagine Gove in debate versus Clegg?

It would be like King Solomon versus Dumbo the Elephant.
It wouldn't be pretty, it wouldn't be fair.
It wouldn't be kind, it wouldn't be relevant.
It would be like sending a lamb into a lion's lair.

claig · 20/10/2013 11:02

Clegg was Head Prefect at the famous Westminster School
It is apparently reported that he is no fool
He had all the advantages that money can buy
Didn't need to struggle, the way Gove had to try
But to take on Gove would be aiming far too high
Gove has much bigger fish to fry

Anyone who thinks Gove is on the way out,
Doesn't know what they are talking about

TheFallenMadonna · 20/10/2013 11:03

Good Lord!

claig · 20/10/2013 11:06

Are you addressing Gove?

Hassled · 20/10/2013 11:06

I don't know whether to applaud the rhyming couplets or to weep :o.

Claig - much as I wish you were wrong, I suspect you're right. He's clever, he's articulate, he's a bit scary - I don't think it's the beginning of the end at all. People have hated his education policies for a long time now - but he's been able to carry on.

claig · 20/10/2013 11:09

Hassled, you are right. He has made more u-turns than New Labour, and yet not one of them has harmed him at all.

He is the real Teflon man, if anyone can do it, he certainly can.

TheFallenMadonna · 20/10/2013 11:11

He's not on his way out. Sadly.

throckenholt · 20/10/2013 11:13

I think parents and professionals have always disliked what he does - but I am not sure that has made any great difference. Being a cynic I am not sure being minister for whatever has much to do with you actual knowledge and ability in that area.

Wishful thinking I think.

ReluctantBeing · 20/10/2013 11:13

A colleague of mine (we are teachers) saw him on the train. How he didn't punch him, I don't know. That's self-restraint.

claig · 20/10/2013 11:15

'How he didn't punch him, I don't know. That's self-restraint.'

Yes, Gove has self-restraint as well as his other qualities. I am not surprised that Gove did not punch him.

Arisbottle · 20/10/2013 11:17

He is not on his way out, his mission was to wind teachers up to the point that they started to act in a way that would turn the media and public against them as a profession, he has achieved that. He can now start dismantling the profession and make a bid for tory leadership.

northender · 20/10/2013 11:22

Gove is the one politician more than any other who makes me want to hurl things at the TV when he's on. How I wish he was on his way out!

Hassled · 20/10/2013 11:25

With Gove I don't think it's that he doesn't understand why his policies aren't popular. He just doesn't care. And most politicians would care, I think - that's what sets him apart.

claig · 20/10/2013 11:31

I don't really think it is about him not caring. He actually believes in what he is trying to do. He has the righteous zeal of a progressive He is a progressive and is implementing radical changes and really believes that he is doing the right thing.

That is why he has such confidence in his policies and is able to withstand such criticism. If he didn't believe in what he is doing, he would have crumbled and given in years ago. His reforming, radical, progressive zeal is his shield.

TheFallenMadonna · 20/10/2013 11:36

I absolutely agree with you that he is a zealot.

Arisbottle · 20/10/2013 11:39

I do think that some of his earlier policies came from a good place. I think the EB for example came about because he knew that in some schools children are not encouraged to take the qualifications that will help them succeed in later life and in some schools they are actively pushed towards less ambitious qualifications to improve the schools place on the league tables. There were problems with the EB but I do think that he was trying to push up standards. However because he zealously believes in what he is doing and is arrogant he is not listening to advice and has not lost the plot.

He also now seems to be more interested in taking on the unions than improving the life chances of our young people .

claig · 20/10/2013 11:40

Yes, he is a zealot because he is a progressive.

I always thought he was a progressive, but read a speech of his yesterday that I think confirms it.


I began tonight by arguing that for those of us who are political progressives it is also necessary to be educational conservatives And there is a sense in which all great education has a conservative element - we wish to pass on - protected and if possible enhanced - the whole repertoire of human accomplishment to our children.

But while I am proud in many ways to be a conservative I think - in a spirit of proper candour - that I should actually come out and accept that this Government's educational philosophy is not really conservative at all - but rather uncompromisingly radical


"And I suspect that even if not every Conservative agrees with me, Jade Goody and Antonio Gramsci would."

YokoUhOh · 20/10/2013 11:40

And why is unshakeable self-belief a positive attribute when an entire profession is telling him he's barking up the wrong tree? From this display of supreme over-zealousness, I would infer that he's too arrogant to listen to anyone apart from his cronies.

I think he'll be moved soon, to Home or Foreign Office, god help us all.

claig · 20/10/2013 11:43

YokoUhOh, good question.
But unshakeable self-belief in what one is doing is the hallmark of a progressive. That is just the way things are.

thecatfromjapan · 20/10/2013 11:44

I wonder if that link doesn't say more about Clegg's desperation to find a safe place to put distance between himself and unpopular Tory-identified (and Labour-identified) policies before the Liberal carnage next election.

claig · 20/10/2013 11:45

'He also now seems to be more interested in taking on the unions than improving the life chances of our young people.'

Yes, because in his zeal he believes that the two are combined. To help young people, he believes he needs to vanquish the enemies of promise and as a progressive he is determined to win the fight.

claig · 20/10/2013 11:46

thecatfromjapan, you are right. Clegg is clutching at straws because he has nothing else to cling to.

thecatfromjapan · 20/10/2013 11:47

claig: "YokoUhOh, good question.
But unshakeable self-belief in what one is doing is the hallmark of a progressive. That is just the way things are."

That is pretty true. It's pretty much the end that determines whether these people were crazy, wrong-minded zealots or visionaries. And it often keeps historians busy, arguing the toss.

(I still don't like quite a few of Gove's proposals.)

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