Is Gove on his way out?

[OddBoots]

There has been thread after thread here about his reforms and I don't think I am being unfair to say that the overwhelming majority of both parents and professionals think most of them are damaging so he can't claim to have public support.

Now there are scathing comments from Clegg about the changes. Free Schools are showing significant problems and academies not far behind them, is it too early to suggest that this is the beginning of the end for Gove or is that just too much wishful thinking?

[Lazyjaney]

What the heck was today all about?

[claig]

Are you referring to

"Michael Gove attacks Conservatives' 'ridiculous' number of Old Etonians

David Cameron's inner circle full of 'preposterous' number from privileged background, says education secretary"

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/15/michael-gove-old-etonians-conservative-david-cameron

If so, I think it is to do with the coming leadership battle for the Tory Party.
Gove is a key man and possibly the next leader, even though he says he does not want to be the leader.

[claig]

This may be part of the stop Boris movement, and Boris is a well-known Etonian.

"The spark for these recent hostilities was a Gove dinner with Rupert Murdoch. When the subject of the Tory succession was raised, Gove explained his preference for Osborne over Boris."

"Their rivalry has taken on a new edge since David Cameron decided that Gove, with his rapier-sharp wit, was the man to keep Boris in his box. A minister familiar with the strategy says, ‘Michael is licensed to sink his teeth into Boris’s ankles in a way that neither the boss nor George can.’ Gove took on this role as the ‘licensed bear-baiter’ with gusto. One of those who has watched them duel across a dining table observes, ‘He does like winding Boris up.’"

www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/politics/9158411/never-mind-the-teaching-unions-goves-friends-are-out-to-get-him/

[Effic]

No chance of Gove being on his way out. Despite the colossal mess he is making of education, he is an ex-journalist married to a journalist and they protect him at all costs.
Every large academy chain bar one is embroiled in MAJOR scandals involving fraudulent use of money or huge failing standards issues and yet it barely registers in the news. He has hopelessly bodged release of a new curriculum for primary by sept 2014 with no time for anyone to get a handle on it - not mentioned. Worst of all, the implemented a new curriculum for early years in SEpt 2013 which was even released until Jan 2014 - we had to make it up for. Term!! He is now scrapping all primary assessment levels with no clue as to the ramifications and it gets no mention? The entire way special educational needs is identified, funded and delivered is changing simultaneously with curriculum and assessment change and NO paper even mentions it! They protect their own - other MPs get bought down by the paper for one mis-spoken phrase.(pleb or not not) Gove can preside over total fuck up after total fuck up and there is NO mention of it.

[claig]

But why doesn't the Guardian or the BBC report on it? They do not protect Gove or the Tories? And what about Owen Jones, why doesn't he report on it?

[longfingernails]

Gove is completely right about the Etonians. But he is unwise to say so.

Cameron's circle is totally out of touch with Thatcher's working class Tories. They need to win them back if they want to have a chance in 2015.

[JaneinReading]

Gove gave his leadership interview to the Financial Times last weekend. He has probably moved too soon and is not in my view likely to be a suitable leader. Boris J has better policies and is brighter. Osborne is better too. I like William Hague too (but not Gove). The Tories would be on a hiding to nothing if they chose Gove (or May for that matter, although it would be great if they could produce a woman instead of all these men).

[tryingreallytrying]

We can but pray.

[Isitmebut]

As Gove has inherited an education system where over our school leavers can’t subtract one item from £100 and give the right change, I suspect that ‘the problem’ providing children equipped for life, never mind work, is not Gove.

Gove’s comment on Eaton was about an education system that meant few educated by the State reach the top of government. Arguably looking at the economic mess we got ourselves into and the inability to count the number of homes we’d need for a few million economic migrants, I’d say the UK maths skill suck throughout our education system.

Finally I really don’t understand this preoccupation with ‘out of touch’ Eaton, as CLEARLY no one from Eaton was within the ‘in touch with the people’ Labour administration, who managed to get us into such a social, financial, and economic mess.

Oxbridge/Eaton, Oxbridge/trade unionists reps, or even Oxbridge/Hogwarts – all ‘the people need to know is that just throwing countless £billions on a fat unreformed government up to 2010 was never going to be sustainable, never mind ‘more of the same’ with much higher taxes ‘for growf’, after the election.

The collective non Eaton ‘brains’ at Labour, as Milband showed yesterday in reply to the Budget, have NOTHING when trying to solve the problems of their own making (with over 100 seat democratic majorities in 13-years) - other than making the run up to 2015, another 1970’s style class war. Pathetic.

[frumpity33higswash]

GOVE You cant be sure hes on the way out. He may think hes in a long term leadership battel

[Isitmebut]

Generally speaking using various criteria Gove is more than safe; the recognition that our education system was broken, the balls to launch reforms, an effective orator, general competence for any future ministry, the lack of an Eaton education etc etc etc.

Whether he or anyone else thinks that they are potential leaders shouldn’t figure in any head-up bottom Tory career progression plans, there is NOT a vacancy, and on the likely event of the Conservatives not being the largest party in 2015, mainly due to knobbled electoral boundaries - due to extent/number of problems Cameron inherited, and his performance changing the destructive Labour direction of travel in just one parliament - he should continue to lead the Conservative for years to come. IMO.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10541766/David-Cameron-the-great-reformer.html

The thing is, just like Miliband’s ‘hunt the foxy Gove’ antics during his Budget reply speech last Wednesday, ‘promotion’ to leader elect is probably a public school type game played by the silly boys, as basic Conservative history tells you NOT to promote yourself.

The Japanese have a saying that goes something like ‘the tallest nail gets hit first’, and over the past 25-years the Conservatives have more than a brace or two of ex competent ministers promoting THEMSELVES for leadership, but end up falling by the wayside, with fellow Tory knives sticking out of their now politically dead bodies.

Any which way traditional Conservative voters will not be amused by the current internal leadership banter; they all need to just do their jobs and earn all the support they manage to get by May 2015, based on their record fixing problems built up over a decade, while reducing the 2009/10 £157 billion budget deficit.

[ttosca]

lol! I hope you're paid well to write this garbage.

[Isitmebut]

I wish I was paid, but the facts speak to any socialist that has now managed to realised that the UK was heading for a Labour policy driven disaster by 2010.

ttosca…on that note I see Miliband was told by lefty boffins to up his game, rather than keep (ignorantly) inferring the Conservatives are ‘scum’ - about time don’t you think?

The Miliband problem; Labour’s 2010 manifesto basically told us that they wanted to cut less and spend/tax more than the other two main parties.

And all they have done SINCE is conduct a campaign of an opportunistic ‘OPPOSE EVERYTHING’.

“Left thinkers warn Ed Miliband against safety-first (2015) election manifesto”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/24/left-ed-miliband-manifesto-thinktanks-labour-party
“Neal Lawson, chairman of the thinktank Compass, said Labour needed to "shape up [and] be bolder and more radical" with its policies, especially by devolving more power to people.”

So lets see what Miliband and Newest Old Labour has GOT, rather than public schoolboy bitching about the coalitions policies.

Frankly I can’t wait.

[ttosca]

You're right, the public are far to the left of Labour. Had they any balls, they would devise progressive socialist policies.

However, they don't. And they're a neo-liberal party, just like the other two main parties.

In fact: Public Far to the Left of Labour Party Finds Poll

If David Cameron genuinely believes "Red" Ed Miliband is a socialist then a new poll suggesting the public are far to the left of Labour and want state control of key sectors of the economy, will be enough to provoke nightmares of a Marxist revolution in Downing Street.

According to the poll, voters support state-imposed price controls on the utilities, re-nationalisation of the railways and Royal Mail, an end to private cash in the public sector and even state power to regulate rents.

But perhaps more worrying for the Tories is that, when asked, voters said they didn't believe either party was on the side of working people, suggesting they want to see even more radical policies.

And that could lead to pressure on Miliband to come up with even more populist policies such as his energy price freeze which has struck such a chord with the public - the poll showing 74% back such controls.

And it gets worse for Cameron. Even Tories support some of the more radical proposals such as state control of transport and utilities and almost 80% of voters feel they are not personally benefitting from the economic recovery, with even 70% of Tory voters feeling the same way.

The YouGov survey for the Centre for Labour and Social Studies (Class) think tank was carried out at the end of last month as the full impact of the political party conferences and subsequent debate over energy prices hit home.

It found huge opposition to private sector involvement in the public services, with an overwhelming 12 to 1 against the NHS being run by the private sector; 67% in favour of Royal Mail being run in the public sector; 66% backing nationalisation of railway companies; and 68% in favour of nationalising the energy companies.

The poll will be a boost for the Labour Party, showing twice as many people see Ed Miliband (32%) as more on the side of working people than David Cameron (16%). However the survey also found that a greater number of people (38%) don't see either leader as being on the side of working people.

The poll suggested big support for Labour's policy to freeze energy bills for 20 months, with 74% of people in favour of governments having the power to control energy prices. But the poll also suggested the public would like Labour to go further - nearly three quarters of people think the government should also control transport costs.

The poll also found 45% of the public believe that the state should have the power to control private rents, against 43% which opposed to the idea.

The findings will come as a genuine shock to politicians on all sides as they suggest the public is demanding far more radical, left-wing action to control the economy and utilities than any of the big parties are currently offering.

It will encourage some to press Labour, in particular, to go even further with its plans to control key sections of the economy, way beyond what Ed Miliband or Ed Balls are contemplating.

And it is likely to dismay the Tories whose claims that such policies would take Britain back to the bad old days of nationalised industries and state control, seem to be falling on deaf ears.

But, if the findings continue to be borne out as the general election campaign moves into top gear, and if Labour takes them to heart, it could spark the sort of ideological debate which Britain has not seen since the late 1970s and 1980s - for good or ill.

www.ibtimes.co.uk/left-wing-price-controls-nationalisation-yougov-poll-519684

[ttosca]

Also, you are a paid propagandist.

[Isitmebut]

As I’ve said, and don’t give a cows what you think, I’m not a paid anything, I just give the facts that CLEARLY you don’t want to hear, you certainly have nothing to counter them, other than head-up-bottom theories e.g Brown’s spending splurge that produced the largest Budget Deficit in Europe, so who by definition is a propagandist?

The public are not left of Labour, the public are reeling due to the effects of the financial and economic recession of Labour’s making and Miliband’s desperate populist rhetoric and promises he cannot deliver on, ARE ABOUT TO BE EXPOSED.

Of course IF OFFERED the people want cheaper energy bills, regulated (lower) rents, re-nationalisation if provides a better/cheaper service, no private money in the public sector for different reasons, more homes built etc etc etc – THE PROBLEM IS IN THE DETAIL, YET TO BE EXPLAINED.

So frankly if I was a Conservative strategist I want Labour/Miliband to launch those policies tomorrow, because I want the voters to listen to his bluster for over a year and realise that he cannot deliver on problems largely of Labour’s making.

So I can’t wait for ex Energy Minister Miliband to tell EDF and other energy companies, that he mandated to FUND new nuclear energy power stations up front and be paid back VIA THE BILL, that he wants them to absorb any higher costs in volatile energy markets e.g. Russia. No repercussions there then.

And people currently may think that Miliband represents working people more, as it is clear most don’t understand Labour’s incompetence caused most of the problems. And Labour, their press and porkie pie merchants like you are doing their best to both hide it and blame the coalition as being ‘out of touch’. Lame.

Labour in government prior to the 2010 General Election managed to set the agenda and hide the details of their cut/spend/tax policies, but they won’t be allowed to again as even the leftie think-tanks are screaming for detail. Lol.

So as leftie policies like price controls cause problems elsewhere, or in re nationalising they need to blow out the annual budget deficit again, Labour will end up on the defensive all the way to the election and the public will see what a useless, incompetent shower they are.

And while Labour voters won’t care and vote them into the largest party in 2015, at least those with open minds will rumble them.

[ttosca]

As I’ve said, and don’t give a cows what you think, I’m not a paid anything,

It's clearly not only me who thinks you're a full-time paid propagandist.

I just give the facts that CLEARLY you don’t want to hear, you certainly have nothing to counter them, other than head-up-bottom theories e.g Brown’s spending splurge that produced the largest Budget Deficit in Europe, so who by definition is a propagandist?

haha - yeah, public spending caused the financial crisis and recession. Whatever.

The public are not left of Labour,

According to that poll they clearly are.

the public are reeling due to the effects of the financial and economic recession of Labour’s making

Yeah, that explains why it was a global financial crisis...

Of course IF OFFERED the people want cheaper energy bills, regulated (lower) rents, re-nationalisation if provides a better/cheaper service, no private money in the public sector for different reasons, more homes built etc etc etc – THE PROBLEM IS IN THE DETAIL, YET TO BE EXPLAINED.

Calm down. Nationalisation of key industries is a left wing idea. Left or both Labour and the Tory scum.

Many countries in europe run nationalised industries for key services, and run them more cheaply and efficiently.

And people currently may think that Miliband represents working people more, as it is clear most don’t understand Labour’s incompetence caused most of the problems. And Labour, their press and porkie pie merchants like you are doing their best to both hide it and blame the coalition as being ‘out of touch’. Lame.

'Out of touch'? The vile Tory scum? Never!

Extra Food Banks Aren't Needed Because Restaurants Are Busy, Says Tory Councillor

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/26/food-banks-crawley-liam-marshall-ascough_n_5034541.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

:)

[moondog]

O blimey
Tosca's head is doing a 360 turn again.
Better get out the crucifix.
Love Gove.
Love, love, LOVE him.

[ttosca]

Poor families hit by welfare reforms 'running up £52 of debt every week'

Research finds average debt of low income households affected by benefits changes is almost £3,000 – up 29% since October

--
Low income families hit by welfare reforms are running up personal debt at the rate of £52 a week to cope with the rising cost of living, with many saying they have no idea if they will be able to pay it back, according to the latest instalment of a poverty research project.

The project found that the average household debt stood at just under £3,000, up by 29% since October, equivalent to £670. Families were typically spending £34 a week repaying debts, from an average income among those surveyed of £176 a week.

The poorest families are also spending nearly four times the national average on heating and fuel – equivalent to a fifth of their income – while nearly a third of households spend less than £40 a week on food.

Almost half of the participants in the survey, all of whom have been affected by welfare reforms such as the bedroom tax, report that they have no money left to live on each week once rent, food and bills are paid for.

cont'd...

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/26/poor-families-welfare-reforms-new-debt?CMP=fb_gu

[Isitmebut]

ttosaca….you cannot remain ignorant on what caused the Anglo-American banking crisis, that spilled into a global banking crisis and then a mainly western great recession ALL your life – while you might impress some mums and others on here - it makes you look stupid to those in the know.

Anglo-American banks lending/leverage went from around 30 times their balance sheets to over 40 times, so were over lending, especially in property, especially in America where legislation for years encouraged Sub prime lending – I explain more about the banking ‘contagion’ within my second post on this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/1969660-Labour-banks-splitting-won-t-fix-capacity


The UK banks were also heavily involved in over lending e.g. Northern Rock, and how many countries had to nationalise their main banks because of it i.e. RBS and Lloyds?

But don’t take my word for it.

www.theguardian.com/business/2011/dec/12/labour-regulations-city-rbs-collapse

In a long-awaited report into the RBS scandal, Lord Turner, chairman of the FSA, said the regulator had been encouraged to take a "light touch" by Labour and that its creator, Gordon Brown, had left it with a "structural flaw".

Turner, who said the public had a right to be "absolutely furious" about the banking crisis, cited demands by Tony Blair, Brown and Ed Balls that the financial district be allowed to be competitive.

City minister Mark Hoban said the report was "as damning as it is depressing" for Balls. "The report lays bare the gross failures of the regulatory regime devised and driven by the shadow chancellor and his party," he said.

And take Gordon Brown’s word for it.

“Gordon Brown has admitted making a ‘big mistake’ in regulating Britain’s banks before the country was plunged into recession by the 2008 financial crisis, as current chancellor George Osborne prepares to hand power back to the Bank of England.”
metro.co.uk/2011/04/11/gordon-brown-i-made-big-mistake-on-banks-before-financial-crisis-650630/

“We did not understand how risk was spread across the system, we did not understand the entanglements of different institutions and we did not understand, even though we talked about it, just how global things were.’So we created a monitoring system which looked at individual institutions. That was the big mistake."

An understatement on the effects of global banking 'contagion' leading to the greatest recession in 80-years, don't you think?



And the last post on here explains how Brown increasing annual spending from 2001 to 2007, from £400 billion to £618 billion RELYING on the increasing profits/taxes of speculation, THEN CAUSED THE HUGE BUDGET DEFICIT/DEPTH OF RECESSION when City, banking and homes taxes fell away in the financial crash.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/politics/1761276-The-true-reason-for-deficit-cutting?pg=4

So laugh “haha” on the other side of your face, and LEARN something, Labour apologist sucker.

[Isitmebut]

ttosca….Labour knew for years that they had to reign in Welfare/benefits prior to the 2010 General Election, but were too cowardly to tell the electorate, so ignorance of what they’d have done due to that cowardice, which could not have been painless – hardly makes them, or you, any platform to throw stones in judgement.

Especially as a Labour government with out of control spending across the board, thinking that spending countless £billions on more on the same – and cutting a bit of VAT would create private sector, tax generating recovery – would have been FORCED by markets funding their incompetence, to cut DEEPER than the coalition had to, by understanding the problems and trying to fix them.

Maybe these Labour cuts, on top of others(?) and no doubt administered by a big new honking Quango WAS the answer; what a shame they never had the Balls to do it prior to the election

www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/oct/02/labour-cuts-welfare-liam-byrne
“Byrne said the "zero-based review" that Ed Miliband would conduct if Labour won the 2015 general election would look at the "balance" between universal and targeted benefits.”

"There has always been a balance in the welfare state between universal benefits and targeted benefits and I'm afraid as part of Ed's zero-based review that balance has got to be looked at, but the chief focus has got to be on getting as many people into jobs as possible. It's good for living standards, it's good for growth and it's good for tax."

“Byrne also used the interview to call for a government rethink on its plans to set one national benefits cap, saying it would make "much more sense to have a different cap in different parts of the country".

How would Labour’s ‘post code benefits lottery have gone; no “poor families running up £52 a week” outside their voting heartlands?

Due to Labour’s electoral cowardice, and the depth of the recession and national overspending/national debt of their making, I’ll guess we will never know.