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Is Gove on his way out?

96 replies

OddBoots · 20/10/2013 09:27

There has been thread after thread here about his reforms and I don't think I am being unfair to say that the overwhelming majority of both parents and professionals think most of them are damaging so he can't claim to have public support.

Now there are scathing comments from Clegg about the changes. Free Schools are showing significant problems and academies not far behind them, is it too early to suggest that this is the beginning of the end for Gove or is that just too much wishful thinking?

OP posts:
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TheFallenMadonna · 20/10/2013 11:49

He's wrong.

I don't care how "progressive" he is. He is not listening to anyone beyond the narrowest circle of advisors. His approach to policy change shouts group think to me...

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claig · 20/10/2013 11:52

Exactly, thecatfromjapan.

It is the old progressive philosophy of "the end justifies the means".

He believes he is right, he cannot even imagine that he may be wrong. The unions and lots of teachers think differently, but they cannot shake the zeal of a progressive believer and reformer in the battle to vanquish the "enemies of promise".

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ReluctantBeing · 20/10/2013 11:53

Hitler also thought he was doing the right thing. He turned out to be wrong.

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larrygrylls · 20/10/2013 11:54

I think Gove is well intentioned and some of his basic ideas are good (more rigorous exams, for instance). On the other hand, I think that he has no idea of what a real classroom in the state sector looks like or the real effects of his half baked reforms. He is also unwilling to look at evidence except where it supports his case.

Free schools and academies are, in my opinion, a positive, though. No one has to send their child to one and, given the effort to set up a free school, I do believe their founders want the very best for the children that they serve. The fact that one in particular is a disaster (and I am sure many more are not great) is no more a reason to criticise the free school movement than one failing state school is an argument to privatise all of education.

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claig · 20/10/2013 11:54

'He is not listening to anyone beyond the narrowest circle of advisors. His approach to policy change shouts group think to me...'

Exactly. It is progressive groupthink and his advisers have a similar zeal.

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claig · 20/10/2013 12:00

There is only one way to change the views of a progressive and that is to win an argument based on logic against them. It is to expose the flaws in progressive thinking. that can only be done by conservatives, since they have a philosophy that differs from the progressive's.

The unions and the teachers are progressives and they cannot therefore win against a progressive because to some extent their worldview shares a similar philosophical base.

And nobody challenges Gove with Thatcherite conservative thinking because Gove is a Conservative Minister, even though he is at heart a progressive.

Therefore Gove cannot lose.

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claig · 20/10/2013 12:03

Therefore Gove is not on the way out, he is on the way up.

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justmuddlingalongsomehow · 20/10/2013 12:10

God help us all...

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ProphetOfDoom · 20/10/2013 12:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

claig · 20/10/2013 12:39

Some things that Gove is doing are right but some are also wrong. I think he is going about it in the wrong way. The real test of whether what he is doing is right or wrong will be in the end if his opponents finally accept that he was right or if they still believe that he was wrong.

At the moment, it is beginning to look like many of his progressive Labour political opponents are beginning to accept that he is right. But in the long term, they don't really count. What will count is if teachers and unions come to accept that he is right. There is no doubt that he has been right on some things and even teachers have come to accept that. But I don't think they will accept that he is right about other things. In the end, it may not matter that much to him and his advisers, because at least they will have succeeded in changing some things even if they were unable to change everything they wished.

Gove read a lot of Latin at school, he read a lot of Shakespeare and now it seems that he even read a lot of the progressive Marxist, Antonio Gramsci. But is his mistake his progressive "end justifies the means" philosophy and should he really read Dale Carnegie's "How To Win Friends and Influence People?" if he wants to achieve longlasting change and success?

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claig · 20/10/2013 12:47

And in all of Gove's undoubtedly wide reading and elevated learning in the esteemed halls of academe, has he forgotten to read the two most important political works of the twentieth century - the speeches of Lady Thatcher and the editorials of the Daily Mail?

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claig · 20/10/2013 12:56

In the end it may be wiser to stick to reading the wise words of Dacre than to reading the progressive ramblings of Gramsci and Das Kapital.

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KatyPutTheCuttleOn · 20/10/2013 12:59

Oh God, the Tooth Fairy, anybody really, please please please let it happen.

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KatyPutTheCuttleOn · 20/10/2013 13:03

He's not only turning the media against the profession but he's also trying (and in some ways succeeding) in turning teaching assistants and teachers against each other - the teachers complain about their pensions and the risk of performance related pay and the teaching assistants then get annoyed because they earn so little and are also being attacked by Gove to the extent that there may not be teaching assistants around for much longer, or so I'm told by friends in both jobs.

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Arisbottle · 20/10/2013 13:17

Turning people against one another so they don't realise they are both being shafted seems to be a stock Tory approach.

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addenuf · 20/10/2013 15:01

I am fascinated by the absolutism on show in this thread (and not just here). I am rarely certain of anything; I know what I think, but what I do not know is if I am right, or even if such 'rightness' exists. Thinking something or that one knows something does not make it so. It seems some commentators on Gove suffer from the same zealotry of which they accuse him.

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addenuf · 20/10/2013 15:17

Claig - I' m actually starting to think you are a bit of a card. Please keep it up. I know this is a serious subject for those in the profession, but Morecambe and Wise never made me laugh out loud as much as some comments here.

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claig · 20/10/2013 16:42

Thank you addenuf, I do try to have a bit of a laugh about it all Grin

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ttosca · 26/10/2013 13:51

Michael Gove accused of free school ‘fraud’ cover up

Department for Education ‘sat for months’ on report alleging financial irregularities worth more than £80,000 at flagship academy in Bradford

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More than £80,000 was misused at a free school previously lauded by David Cameron, with false invoices submitted to Whitehall and taxpayers' money used to hold parties, buy furniture for staff and pay for first-class rail travel, according to a Department for Education report.

The catalogue of financial irregularities occurred as the Kings Science Academy was set up in Bradford two years ago and represents a fresh blow for the Government's key schools policy. The Education Secretary Michael Gove is accused of suppressing for five months the damning findings of the internal investigation into the school that was eventually published today.

The report alleged that invoices were fabricated and that £86,000 of government funding had not been used for its intended purpose. It also disclosed that investigators were so concerned at what they uncovered that they called in police to assess whether a crime had been committed. The Department for Education said auditors had informed police in April 2013 but that no further action was taken.

West Yorkshire Police referred the case to Action Fraud, but it concluded it did not meet the criteria for further action, a Department for Education (DfE) spokesman said.

The report claims that almost £60,000 of the school's £182,000 lead-in grant, which is intended to pay for setting-up costs, was spent without supporting documentation, while “fabricated invoices” for rent were said to account for a further £10,800.

Payments also allegedly went to cover the cost of teachers' furniture, with more than £600 spent on parties or meals and £169 given to a staff member to buy clothes. The former vice-chairman of governors was also said to have been allowed to buy first-class rail tickets.

The report queried the school's recruitment policies, pointing out that a senior member of staff appointed his brother to the board of governors and employed his sister as a senior teacher, while his wife also worked at the school and his father drove the bus. The episode is a fresh blow to the credibility of the free school programme, coming a week after the al-Madinah school in Derby was condemned as inadequate by Ofsted inspectors.

Christine Blower, the general secretary of the National Union of Teachers (NUT), said: “It is now apparent the DfE has been sitting on the report detailing financial irregularities at the Kings Science Academy since May and only released it today once it became clear the NUT had released to the press its own document outlining alleged financial irregularities at the school.

”The catalogue of irregularities in the management of the school's finances acknowledged in the DfE's investigation report is a disgrace. This makes it very clear that the DfE lacks the proper procedures to manage and oversee its free schools programme.

“Michael Gove is himself personally responsible for this position. The public can no longer have confidence in him or his education policies.”

After being contacted by a whistle-blower, the DfE ordered an inquiry into the handling of cash at the 160-pupil school. It found that not all of a lead-in grant could be accounted for, with £86,000 used for different purposes. The internal review, which was published today, five months after completion, highlighted “serious concerns in relation to internal control, financial accounting systems and payment processes in operation in the academy until November 2012”.

It said it had identified a “number of payments where we could not find invoices/documentation to support the payments”. The department said it had issued a warning notice to the school in May, instructing it to “address failings in their financial management”. A spokesman for the DfE said that it was “nonsense” to suggest there was a cover up and that “we always intended to publish the report when the school finished its investigation”.

He added that it is a requirement within the Academies Financial Handbook that the Education Funding Agency will publish reports on all its investigations.

The school has taken action to pay the money it owes, recruit new governors, appoint an experienced finance director and overhaul its financial-management systems. Earlier this year Ofsted inspectors criticised the leadership, teaching and pupil performance at Kings Academy. They concluded that the school “requires improvements” - the third-lowest of the four possible grades that Ofsted can give.

Last year the school was visited by the Prime Minister, who described it as innovative and inspiring and later praised it in a letter to its principal.

A spokesperson for the school said: “We acknowledge there were poor governance issues during the start-up due to the pace of setting up the new school in two to three months. These have since been addressed. All payments received from DfE have been fully accounted for and any sums incorrectly claimed have been repaid.”

Tristram Hunt, the shadow Education Secretary, said, “This case represents another deeply concerning episode in a string of failings of David Cameron's free school programme. Labour has long warned of the dangers that a lack of financial oversight would cause. The case of Kings Science Academy proves yet again that it is not possible for thousands of schools to be run directly from Whitehall.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/michael-gove-accused-of-free-school-fraud-cover-up-8905086.html

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WithRedWine · 26/10/2013 14:11

Wtf - Claig is going overboard with Orwellian doublespeak & you lot are just blithely nodding!

"progressive" means moving towards equality, not destroying it by replacing a system of free education with a privatised systen! Just for the record.

Communists believe in assets being held in common - the clue's jn the name - not in the hands of unaccountable private firms .

Honestly, Claig coukd convince you all the sun rises n the west. Read some political throry and think for yourselves.

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ttosca · 26/10/2013 14:27

Agreed, WithRedWine.

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ubik · 26/10/2013 14:29

Gove is the next leader of the Conservative party.

Be afraid.

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eddiemairswife · 26/10/2013 14:39

The worrying thing is that Gove is convinced he is right about Education to the same extent that Tony Blair believes he was right about going to war in Iraq.

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claig · 26/10/2013 15:40

'Wtf - Claig is going overboard with Orwellian doublespeak'

I'm sorry but I have not mentioned the New Labour Manifesto in any way whatsoever, and I certainly did not mention what was called New Labour's 'Five Point Flan', which has more accurately been referred to by authorities in the field as the 'Five Point Flim Flam'.

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Argolis · 27/10/2013 23:14

Gove is not the next leader of the Tory party - he is way too weird looking to ever be leader of any party. He is deeply ugly in a strange way that makes me feel queasy.

Sorry, weird-looking freaks don't become party leaders - even if they suck up to the Mail and Murdoch.

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