MNHQ Group 4

[AnnMumsnet]

Many thanks for agreeing to take part in this closed discussion thread. As you'll know, you all have an individual user name, separate to your on-site profile. So please feel free to be as open and frank as you like, without your views being read-across to your site profile.

The aim of these discussions is to discover if, how and why women's voting intentions are shifting and what you think about each of the party leaders.

We'll ask a few questions, allow you to think them over, respond, engage in a bit of discussion with other participants, and then we will pop back on the thread. We might want to tease out the reasons behind particular views or opinions and then will crack on with the next set of questions (on Thursday) and one more set over the weekend. Do feel free to re visit the thread at any point over the next week or so. We'll email you when we add a new set of questions.

Here are the questions to get you started

Thinking about when you decide which party to vote for, how important is the leader of the party in that decision?

Why?

What do you look for in a party leader? What makes a good party leader and what makes a bad one? What makes a good prime minister and what makes a bad one?

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed?

Why?
Why not?

Feel free to include any thoughts you might have - they don't have to be the conventional, just true to how you feel!

1) So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you. First of all David Cameron?
Well, firstly I'd like to point out that I don't really see any issues facing me as 'a woman'. I have issues as a person & as a parent. My gender is pretty irrelevant IMO. Having said that, I don't know if DC understands my position on things but I'm certain he doesn't care. He seems to listen to whoever bullies him or shouts the loudest or probably whoever throws the most money or sucks up to him. Unfortunately, people like me tend to just go with the flow. I don't like to make a fuss, nor do I expect everyone to do as I please so I'm usually quietly concerned.

And then Nick Clegg?
The only thing that NC understands is that he wants to be in power & so will do whatever is necessary to make that happen. No need to bother himself with the little people like me!

And then Ed Miliband?
I can't say I really know much about EM - that probably says a lot! He strikes me as a bit wet/weedy & probably easily manipulated. It doesn't really matter how well any of the leaders understand the issues of the average person if they're more concerned about being in power than being good leaders.

What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?
I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I don't really know enough about any other party leaders to comment! That's probably part of the reason I'm not planning to vote next time. The 3 main leaders are rubbish & no-one else is likely to get in so what difference does it make?!
From the little I do know of them, Nick Griffin & Nigel Farage are pretty useless on issues that affect me too.

2) and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally?First of all David Cameron?And then Nick Clegg?And then Ed Miliband?What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?
No idea. I don't really pay attention to things like that - I'm perfectly happy as a SAHM so I'm not overly bothered by glass ceilings etc.

3) Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least?And why?
I think it depends what you perceive "the interests of women" to be. Like I said, I'm a SAHM & my DH has a stable job which pays enough to feed/clothe us. I'm a woman but my "interests" would be very different to, say, a feminist, career-driven single-mother living in London.
Having said that, I don't really trust any party to look after anyone but themselves & anyone they think could be influential/useful to have on side!

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?
I'd be surprised if any of them couldn't manage on our budget. We're relatively comfortably off - we'd struggle to afford anything more than a cheap holiday (& would probably have to save up for that) & we don't have a tv or any games consoles but we view them as luxuries & only have very young children so we're not having demands for the latest gadgets from moody teenagers yet! If we can manage to feed & clothe ourselves without difficulty & have enough for the odd day trip or takeaway then I'm sure they could too! They'd probably all have to make do with M&S suits though...!

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?
Like I said, they'd probably all manage just fine if they didn't insist on buying fancy suits!

I'd have answered the questions for individual leaders but, as I've probably mentioned, they're all the same to me & it seemed a little silly to copy & paste the same answer for each one!

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

For context, we're a family of 4. Dh works, I'm studying. We'd generally describe ourselves as part of the "squeezed middle".

Like others on this thread I'm going to answer for all of them at once. I think that generally speaking they could make a budget, taking into account our income and expenditure. However I think they would come to the wrong conclusions from doing so. I expect they would say that we're doing fine. In fact David Cameron would probably use it as evidence we could afford to lose our child benefit. However that's not really the case. The reason I'm at home is because we couldn't really afford to pay out for childcare for me to work (when you take into account commuting costs, etc. we'd be worse off overall). I also expect they'd not bother to understand the reasons behind my household budget. e.g. Gym membership - they'd see it as a luxury that's not needed, where I see it something that helps my mental health (anxiety) enough to feel able to go back to work when the dc are both in school full-time. I feel all of them would take a very black and white attitude to the figures.

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

Similarly, I think they'd all manage. After all our budget isn't as difficult to live on as some. They'd probably all be happy to have their wife stay at home chained to the kitchen sink looking after the kids, etc. I expect all of them would miss some of the luxuries they can afford. It's the long term issues that are more of a problem. All of them would manage on our budget at the moment but I'd wonder how many would be able to help the dc go to uni or how they'd cope in retirement (neither of us have enough in a pension and I'm not sure we ever will despite being well educated and Dh is a decent job with a decent salary and I hope to be in a couple of years time). Also, our budget is workable because we've not pushed it to it's limit. For example, we live in a 2 bed semi (although our AIP would have let us buy a significantly more expensive house), so they'd probably find it far more crowded than they're used to. We only have one car (Dh walks to work).

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

Actually just another note on this point. It seems that there have been a few tv programmes where a politician/rich person will go and live with someone on benefits to "see what it's really like" and I really wonder how useful that is at all. It's usually someone who doesn't work or works part-time to fit in around school hours or when family can watch the dc and claims benefits and the consensus always seems to be "It's a terrible way to live, he/she should get a job/get a 2nd job/work more hours". I'd like to see someone live with a family where both parents have full-time jobs and yet still struggle to make ends meet. I think that is the only way to try to understand the reality. Maybe then they would understand why it's not as simple as saying "Get a job/get a better job"

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

First of all David Cameron? Sort of - but I think that it wouldn't be a joint decision
And then Nick Clegg? Probably, but could be argued out of anything I didn't agree with
And then Ed Miliband? No. He always seems like he'd get distracted into spending on a pet project

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?

We are lucky enough to have a good family income, but both work ft and with no family help we spend a huge amount on childcare. I think they'd all struggle to understand that theres just not a lot of time, and that any couple time has to be paid for, and juggling our work diaries to make sure that one of us is around at the right times for ds as we aren't anyway near able to afford a nanny.

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

First of all David Cameron?-
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

I would expect with their level of intelligence they could manage our okish finances ok - however it would be interesting to see how they would manage to get jobs without their connections.... if you look at their cvs they have all (Clegg less so but still) got what jobs they have had through family friends and benefited from v expensive education..

Bit late with these answers, sorry. here we go:

1) So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?
TBH I am reasonably happy that Cameron is considering issues facing women/parents like me in that he is planning to improve help towards childcare costs. Although I am not happy about increasing nursery child:staff ratios at least it is on the agenda.
All I can recollect of Clegg is whining about policy favouring higher rate taxpayers. People who earn £50k are not minted and deserve to be included in some policies!
Not sure what Miliband's policies relating to me are.
Don't care about other parties. Whilst I respect the Green Party and think they are a necessary and important side of debate on certain issues in parliament, I have no time for UKIP and certainly none for the BNP.

2. and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally?
   First of all David Cameron? Perhaps a wee bit patronising, and could do with a Harriet Harman, but seems to be trying.
   And then Nick Clegg? Not sure
   And then Ed Miliband? Not sure
   What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

3. Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?
   I don't like to think exclusively in terms of women's issues, I think of my family's needs. Including DH and the DCs.

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?

What a bizarre question. I am sure, as clever educated people, they could manage household finances perfectly well.

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
Again, I think this is a most odd question. I don't feel that their family priorities are really that different to ours as professional people. They could all live on our budget without problems, I am sure.

Thinking about when you decide which party to vote for, how important is the leader of the party in that decision? Why?

I think that the leader of political party is important as they are the public face of that party - the person who demonstrates the values of the party, sets the tone for the party and is most vocal (in terms of media presence, etc.) regarding policy. Also, they are potentially (as PM) the UK's voice in world politics.

When voting however I look at the candidates standing locally and what their policy aims are. I have previously voted tactically, voting for the best MP to represent my area, who may or may not represent the political party that I most identify with.

What do you look for in a party leader? What makes a good party leader and what makes a bad one? What makes a good prime minister and what makes a bad one?

Some one who is party leader needs to have personality and charisma. They need the ability to speak clearly and convincingly and be willing to make hard decisions and not back down in the face of opposition. However, if they don't have intelligence, ideas and drive to back the superficial elements up, it all becomes a game of smoke and mirrors.

A good party leader may not necessarily make a good Prime Minister and vice versa. I think that anyone who becomes party leader is obviously driven and is most likely quite ruthless, but as PM a person needs to work for the good of the country and not themselves. Most likely some of the potentially best PM's have never been in power because they have been beaten to the party leadership given the various backroom machinations that go on in leadership races.

I also feel that good/bad leaders and Prime Ministers from years gone by might be judged differently today given the increase press and social media scrutiny.

Thinking about the party you voted for at the 2010 General Election and the party you would vote for now, has it changed? Why? Why not?

I voted Conservative in the 2010 General Election as I believed in some of the manifesto. I feel badly let down however (I'm a SAHM) as I have been affected by some new policies (e.g. Child benefit changes) and I feel strongly that SAHM (or dads) are dismissed completely as unworthy by the current government.

However, the parliamentary ward I live in is a two horse race between the Conservatives and the Lib Dems - no other candidate from any other party will win here - the majority is that big. It would take a seismic political event to shift the incumbent (which I don't believe we have reached) so I really don't know who I will vote for in the next General Election.

To qualify my answers above, I think the question is either aiming to get a response of 'they are out of touch with real people' or 'they can't manage a budget, look at the economy'.

To which I'd say that we see ourselves as 'real people' but with a higher than average income. We don't have inherited wealth (nor did we go to public schools) just both earn good salaries, only have one DC and live in the Midlands where living costs are not high. So are in a much better position than most. But we do budget very carefully, are not wasteful and save hard. I guess I don't see the party leaders as very far removed from our own class/standard of living.

And I think managing a household budget, with competing demands of a couple plus children, is significantly easier than managing the country's finances!

1) So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

I honestly feel that all 3 of the main party leaders are completely dismissive of women like me. I am a professional, educated women who has chosen to stay home with my children whilst they are small. However, the party leaders talk about respecting those parents (mostly women) who do make that same choice and then in the next moment turn round and implement policies that completely dismiss anyone who is a SAHP. It seems that in fact you are only valued if you go out to work.

The only other leader I have heard anything from recently is Nigel Farage from UKIP - and I don't think I have ever heard or seen any information on his parties thoughts about the issues that concern me.

2) and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally?
First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

I think the Conservatives have regressed to the old-Etonian / Oxbridge elite style of leadership, with the odd women thrown into the mix as (in some cases) someone to point to and say "Look, we believe in women and there are women in Government".

Nick Clegg / Liberal Dems - seem to have forgotten that they are part of a Coalition and I honestly couldn't tell you what their position is re women in politics currently.

Traditionally Labour have been more vocal re. women and have had more women in Government / Parliament (c.f. Blair's Babes - a revolting phrase btw), but again I think currently their position is pretty weak all round.

Again, Nigel Farage - do they even have any thoughts on this?

3) Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?

At the moment I have to say that I don't trust any of them at all. There are 21 months until the next General Election and I think it will be very interesting to see how things will play out in that time given recent policy implementations and the opposition towards them.

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

As these are well educated man I imagine that they could all manage my household finances well enough, but would likely get a big wake up call as to the true cost of living (we live in Greater London).

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

First of all David Cameron?
And then Nick Clegg?
And then Ed Miliband?
What about another party leader you know of (or one you think should/ could be a party leader) - please name them and then say: how well or badly do they do on this aspect?

I don't think any of them could live their current life on my budget - they may adjust long term but it would be a big shock.

I think all would have a wake up call about what I think of as 'optional luxuries'. Holidays - our budget just about stretches to one 5 day UK break, so no sunshine holiday for us (never mind multiple trips per year). Additionally, clothes are supermarket best with occasional purchases from mid-range stores during sales. We are scrimping to save for a house. In the SE, the size of the deposit we need, even for a relatively modest house, is ridiculous - not something any of the party leaders have had to really think about I would guess.

1. So, these days how well or badly do you think the current main party leaders are doing on understanding the issues and concerned facing women like you.
   First of all David Cameron? Bugger all. :(
   And then Nick Clegg? Talks the talk but has absolutely no clout.
   And then Ed Miliband? Not at all.

2. and how well or badly do you think they make sure or take account of women being heard in their party and in politics generally?
   First of all David Cameron? Don't think he gives a stuff.
   And then Nick Clegg? I think he is more likely to listen but unable/unwilling to act on.
   And then Ed Miliband? No idea.

3. Finally for now - which party - if any - do you trust the most to look after the interests of women? Why? And which do you trust the least? And why?

Don't trust any I'm afraid to say. :(

Sorry I'm late again (blush):

How well or badly do you think the party leaders could manage your household finances effectively?

First of all David Cameron? Hmmm, doubt he could do any better than we are tbh, unless he was going to inject a large amount of cash (wink).
And then Nick Clegg? Ditto!
And then Ed Miliband? Ditto!

Imagine the party leaders had to live on your family budget, which do you think would cope best/worst? Why? What problems would they encounter?

First of all David Cameron? Not to bad an income but I think he'd struggle.
And then Nick Clegg? Think he'd cope best.
And then Ed Miliband? No opinion.

I would tend to think that Cameron would do better at both tasks, just because he seems less of a silver spoon type. I don't know enough about any of them really to say.