Is this really what people want?

[mcmooncup]

I don't post much on the threads about benefits but here goes......I'm going to start.

I have a company that works in the Work Programme with long-term unemployed people. Over the last few weeks / month I have seen a dramatic shift in the provision of benefits.

Many many many many more people are being sanctioned (i.e. their benefits are being taken away from them) for missing an appointment, calling in sick for an appointment or not filling in forms correctly.

If you make a mistake with ANY of these 'obligations' under the Jobseekers allowance contract, you, from Monday, can have your benefits taken away for 3 months for the first offence, 6 months for the second and 3 years for the third.

So, I can recount a few stories for you:
Severely dyslexic man provides his job log sheet to the jobcentre and has filled out as much as he can. The jobcentre is not happy with this and sanctions him, probably for 3 months. His response....."I'm going to go homeless, I can't stand this anymore"

Man goes to an interview for a job instead of turning up for an appointment with his WP provider, called in to tell them this. Sanctioned for 2 weeks for not turning up for the appointment. Message was never passed on, and despite phone records showing he called, he was still sanctioned.

Man sanctioned for 6 months for missing an appointment because he was poorly. He is a single parent. He is thinking of suicide.

Is this really what people want?

Homelessness? Suicide?

Do people really think it motivates people to get a job? Because to believe that you have to believe that people like being on benefits, I guess?

What am I missing?

Or - penguins! They've been keeping very quiet recently ...

'It happened in the library and i think it was Colonel Mustard.'

Can you back that up with some evidence?

To get back to the OP, whoever is at the bottom of it all, there are strings of enablers all the way through the system.

You get people like mcmooncup and others who see what's happening day by day, and hate it. But somewhere in the chain of command there are managers who are intent upon doing the government's dirty work for them, and who insist on the targets set by them. For some it must be a question of keeping their own jobs. But for others - I keep wondering why they have bought into the government's interpretation of events so wholeheartedly. What is it that chimes with them so perfectly?

And ... lest you think I am just off on a ramble, there is an elephant in the room.

So maybe it's the Media, Claig.

You have to realise that austerity is being implemented worldwide and by all parties. If Labour were in power, they would have had to make cuts too. The decision has been made worldwide that this will happen and that is why it is happening. The markets are enforcing it and they punish countries that do not play ball.

The financial market crash was the thing that brought with it austerity across the world, and that austerity is cutting the living standards, rights and benefits of ordinary people worldwide in one go.

This is not a failure of capitalism, instead it shows how in a globalised, interconnected financial world, a string can be pulled which can mean austerity for the entire planet.

And this low growth environment is not good for business or capitalism, since people are not spending and buying. The capitalist does not want a low growth austerity world, the capitalist wants a return to the good times, but the capitalist is not in charge of events.

'This is not a failure of capitalism'. Oh yes it is! It's behind you!

Even China has had a break in expansion, people are returning to villages from the factories etc. We have always had cycles. The 1929 crash had similar effects.

The more interesting trend is if we are moving from prosperity in the UK/US to BRIC countries, a big shift for a good few generations, the West on the wane after its hey day, economic refugees from the UK in 30 years' time rushing to emigrate to China or India where the money is.

Yes we are targetted for low growth with carbon tariffs etc while other areas of the world are earmarked for growth. It is no accident. It is wealth redistribution, started with the deindustrialisation of the West, as we witnessed under Thatcher.

www.theblaze.com/stories/u-n-official-admits-we-redistribute-worlds-wealth-by-climate-policy/

'But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world?s wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.'

I don't think it is much to do with that at all. We have always had since the beginnings of time one group growing whilst another does worse. At one stage teh CHinese were ahead of us - the invented gunpowder etc before us.

We were reasonably advanced when the Romans were here 2000 years ago but then we fell into the dark ages. Various empires have come and gone over the planet. Does it really matter? Happiness does not equate to having new cars so it's all fine.

Although of course if we reduced people on the planet to a 6th of the number we have now we'd probably all long term have a better future but then who is to say it is morally better that humans are on the planet at all rather than some other kind of bug or air.

Xenia you sound like you are turning into a green. Please get a grip and read the Daily Telegraph's Christopher Booker and James Delingpole. If they don't put you right and explain why humans are more important than bugs or elitists, then nothing will.

There is no objective moral reason humans are worth more to the planet than anyone. We are here for a mere blink of an eye, even the 2m years our ancestors have been around. I was pleased to see if you are European you are 2 -3% Neanderthal as we bred with them, but not Africans - they did not as the Neanderthals weren't around in the right places to inter mingle.

Are you more important than a bug? Of course you are and don't let any green elitist tell you differently. All of us are more important than bugs. The anti-human message has been spread by the media and has convinced many people. Don't fall into the green trap.

Next you'll be telling us that zero growth and negative growth are good things. Stop watching the BBC and pick up the Telegraph or the Mail.

I read the link, all that can be concluded from that is that capital flees to where there is growth, it is after that 3% growth, that is all. That is why we have carbon offsetting and the like. The corporations that have the political establishment in their pockets want redistribution. It is nothing what so ever to do with green meanies or bugs being more important than people.

No Mini, there is no growth here because we are being deindustrialised and there are not enough high quality manufacturing jobs and apprenticeships for our youth. In the 1950s and 1960s in the US and here, you could leave work at one place in the morning and be in another job in the afternoon. There was lots of employment because there was lots of industry and lots of growth. We have been earmarked for low growth by the elite planners, they have deindustrialised us and moved many of our factories overseas in the free trade globalised world. They don't care about people and it is not just about business either. It is done to reduce growth and prospects of our people.

And the reason is as Xenia says. She has been fed the message and seemingly believes in it too. The elite want to limit the growth of the "plebs".

Watch a good interview on American TV with billionaire Sir James Goldsmith explaining how globalisation is destroying jobs. He discusses his book called "The Trap".

It is in 6 parts, and this is part 1

Hmmm, watched it again after many years since I last saw it. I agree with Clinton's economic adviser, I thought she did really well. I agree with some of what he says, but not other bits. Some of what he is saying sounds a bit green.

I'll have a look later, I'm listening to Paul Krugman at the moment in the background while I work. Still on here......still working.

I like Krugman, he is very good

Actually edith missing one apt does sanction you, my boyfriend was sanctioned just before the summer, he ended up with rent arrears and loss of two weeks worth of jsa, he was a single parent to a six year old.

sorry skimmed over first page again ffs must stop doing that !!!