Milliband on Englishness .... confused much?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I wonder where the policy advisors were. On holiday, possibly. Anyone catch the interviews yesterday? I'm not sure what he was trying to achieve exactly - somewhere between defending the Union and getting on the jubilee patriotic bandwagon. But apparently Milliband's a jewish atheist that is proud to be English and British and European... but not too proud as he presumably doesn't want to upset the Scots at all, or the Europeans, or Jewish people. Although the Scots won't be British if they get independence and his favourite aspect of Englishness appears to be 'musn't grumble'.

Well that's clear then...

link

I particularly liked this line: "The English people don?t yearn for simplistic constitutional symmetry"

Yes we bloody well do!

Actually, I quite liked the bit about further devolution to LAs.

Very good speech by Miliband. He has addressed the elephant in the room, the elephant that the left have often downplayed and sometimes disrespected in their fear of creating division. He knows that patriotism and identity will become more important issues as Scotland discusses devolution, and instead of doing the usual ostrich-like leftwing behaviour of brushing over the obvious reality and sticking heads in sand, he has set out a position.

Here is the typical leftwing type thinking from Owen Jones in the Independent, telling us that Marx and Engels were right

'But Marx and Engels were right: it is our conflicting interests that make national identity so problematic. A supermarket checkout worker in Manchester has more in common with a call centre worker in Aberdeen ? or Paris or Athens, for that matter ? than, say, a hedge-fund manager or globe-trotting billionaire based in London.'

I think Miliband realises that this is left wing nonsense. The London banker, if brought up in England, shares the same language, the same culture and the same music as the checkout worker in Manchester. They watch the same TV programmes, studied the same GCSEs, support the same football teams, and watch the same pageant on their TV screens.

Marx, Engels and Owen Jones are wrong - the checkout worker shares more in common with the London banker than with a checkout worker in Paris or Athens - for culture is more than Marxist materialism, it is the soul of a nation.

It looks like Miliband understands that and realises that he may have to upset the leftwing litterati and chatterati by telling them the truth. He knows he has to be with the people and not the progressives, if he is to stand any chance of power.

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/owen-jones-the-incoherence-of-englishness-and-why-ed-milibands-england-is-a-lost-country-7827757.html

His speech will go down well with the Daily Mail. A very wise move by his advisers.

The title of the progressive Owen Jones's article is
'The incoherence of Englishness, and why Ed Miliband's England is a lost
country'

England may be a lost country to a progressive like Jones, for he cannot see beyond the materialism of the Marxist, he cannot see beyond the confusion of the communist and cannot think beyond the platitudes of teh progressive.

It may be lost to Jones, but Miliband does not want to lose the next election. He wants to be for and of the people, not led up the garden path by the progressive.

He has taken the battle to the heart of Tory terrirtory and said I am as patriotic as you, now what are you going to do?

"The workers have no country", as Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels wrote in The Communist Manifesto. "We cannot take from them what they have not got

This statement is correct. Whether you blame labour or you blame the corporations and businesses, this statement is correct. We have no boarders. Workers are exploited not just where they reside but they are encouraged to reside, where they can be exploited.

Workers have more in common in a global world than we have ever had at any other time in history.

'The workers have no country'

This is Marxist mumbo-jumbo, Bolshevik baloney, communist claptrap and progressive poppycock with a dash of New Labour nonsense for good measure.

The worker in the munitions factory, the worker making Spitfires, the worker in the shipyards had a country, they had a side. The soldier on the frontline has a side, they have a country and they fight for their country. The Marxist has no country, but the Marxist is no worker, more often a shirker.

The workers will support their national team in the Euros and not the other side. Scots support Scotland, the English support England, Poles support Poland and Marxists support no side other than communists.

Yes and jolly good it is too. Several members of my family refused to fight in WW2, what a brilliant thing it would be if no one went to war.

'what a brilliant thing it would be if no one went to war'

But that will never happen, that is pie-in-the-sky. There will always be a need to defend your country, always be a need to defend against attack, just as the Romanovs tried to defend themselves against Bolshevik attack.

Just as the partisans fought against Mussolini, or the Hungarians rose up against the communists.

Why do we defend our country? one without boarders. If corporations and business can demand open boarders for the exploitation of labour, consumers and markets, why are we still defending our national boarders? I know why but do you claig? I also know, whatever I say will not convince you because I can be neatly written off as a marxist. I am very impressed though, it seems you have spent a lot of time reading, just always keep in mind that history is written by the Victors. It isn't clever to keep up with the "communists are nasty toads rhetoric"

The communists want a world without borders, without nation states, with loss of sovereignty for national governments, which is exactly what the architects of globalisation, and their progressives, also want.

But the people want nations, they feel pride in their traditions and institutions, which is why millions camp out in the rain to celebrate the Queen. The progressives, and the BBC coverage, don't understand the people, they ridicule them and insult their intelligence. The people feel national pride, they don't feel that England is lost or that there is an incoherence about Englishness. Unlike the progressive, they are proud to be English, proud of their history and traditions and are prepared to defend their way of life.

That is why they are prepared to defend their national borders, whatever the Marxist or the globalist may preach.

Why do you think that we still defend our national borders? Do you believe what the Marxists say, that is a relic of outdated capitalist imperialism? Can't you see through the communist trick to undermine the nation state and deliver a globalised empire for the elite?

Claig I have to disagree with your post on one crucial point
The London banker, if brought up in England, shares the same language, the same culture and the same music as the checkout worker in Manchester. They watch the same TV programmes, studied the same GCSEs, support the same football teams, and watch the same pageant on their TV screens.

The same football teams? Are you having a laugh? The Manchester based checkout worker'll be a blue and the banker a red

Yes, good point. I think you are right.

Miliband has made a very good speech. He is bringing Labour back to the people, away from the spin doctors and their parochial progressive concerns, and bringing it back to represent the people and their wishes. That can only be a good thing. He has broken loose from the progressive pager management and that is why Owen Jones says he is going in the wrong direction. He is moving in the direction of the people and in the direction of power at the next election.

I can't see Ed in no 10 (not for long at least). He'll be decapitated around election time. TBH, I can't see Nick, Dave or Ed sticking around for 2 parliaments.

I like Ed Miliband. He is fantastic - humble and genuine. He even admitted that he looks a bit like Wallace. He is not too grand to laugh at himself, because he is not in it for his own ego, but for the nation. That is why he is defending the Union, because he believes in it.

I think the progressives in his party may well ditch him before the election and replace him with someone worse. That is a shame, because I think despite all the negative press about him, people will come to see that he is a great and genuine man.

How can Miliband be an atheist and Jewish? Sounds like a contradiction in terms. It's like me being a Christian atheist. Or is it me?

For once I disagree with Claig I don't like Miliband at all, I believe he is part of the political elite. I feel he his far removed from an ordinary person. His father was the Marxist Ralph Miliband and I was forced to read his tedious books at Uni.
I suppose I would be part of the political elite if Tony Benn was helping me with my homework as he did the Miliband brothers.
TBH Claig I have not read Miliband's speech but I will. .

I'd love Tony Benn to help me with my homework, even now.

I did not agree with most of the Jones article. Workers in England certainly do feel they have a country, well the people I met at the Jubilee Pageant on Sunday certainly thought they did! Does Jones mean that workers don't feel they have a 'stake' in the country as they once did. Many industries have now vanished, and perhaps as he says belonging to the steel works or other large industry gave the worker a feeling of identity which has now been lost.
Also mass immigration has meant that in many cities and towns, people have lost the sense of 'English' identity because many different cultures live together and many different languages are spoken. Mass immigration and it's impact on English identity is the elephant in the room, it's not spoken about and should be.

Oh, yes Tony Ben. I could listen to him all day, I wouldn't even care too much what he was saying, he has a wonderful voice. Something Ed lacks.

I think you are wrong though claig, I really do, Ed is his father's son and over time I think that will become more obvious. I don't think he is defending the union because he particularly believes in it, that is down the the spin doctors.

I haven't read any of Ralph Milibands books, can't say I am at all bothered to do so. Too many authors and thinkers have been apt to reinterpret marx, perhaps if they hadn't we wouldn't be bashing commies for crimes committed under Stalin.

It is possible to be Jewish and atheist.

I saw Tony Benn when he did his 'tour' in 2002 (one of my first dates with DH), he smoked his pipe and drank tea out of a thermos. Such a lovely, engaging, warm man. In my mind he had a tartan blanket over his knees but I think that's my imagination!

I agree that Miliband is part of thge political elite, but then so are the Tories and Nick Clegg and all of them. I do like him. He seems genuine to me, and the best of the New Labour bunch. At first I thought he was not very good, but I have changed my mind and now think he is good. But there was a time when i thought Tony Blair was a 'straight kinda guy', so time will tell.

I think Ed's on the right lines - ordinary people have loved the opprtunity to enjoy being British and wave union jacks affordedby the jubilee - I have felt rather saddened that unlike other countries who are proud of their culture and heritage we have been hiding our rather charming light under a bushel.

Long may the national pride and determination to enjoy ourselves in the face if deeply inappropriate weather continue!