Confused re attitude to benefits and work experience

[catontheroof]

Your thoughts please - why has it become so politically incorrect to suggest that fit adults in this country should be expected to work for a living?

I believe that we need a safety net but cannot understand why people should not have to take jobs that they are qualified for if those jobs exist. I also cannot understand why people "deserve" tax credits etc.

If large chunks of our population do not work then our GDP is low. The only way that we can afford to have so many on benefits with a relatively high standard of living is by importing goods from other countries where the workers live and work in atrocious conditions.

Why do we think that it is right and proper that people in this country sit around being paid not to work whilst tens of thousands all over the world work in sweat shops to provide them with a lifestyle?

If our fit population all worked then we'd increase GDP and have money to help people in other countries where there is real poverty.

How do cleaners help people in Africa? Unless it is in a hospital, it is non-essential work. People could just clean their own houses and workplaces rather than creating new non-jobs.

Why are you trying to turn the UK into a third world country caton

Clothes - this is idealistic:

wealthier people should be paid less and their surplus income could then be given to poorer people

as someone who earns loads is never going to work. i would just work fewer hours.

because caton is president mugabe
obv

I am not trying to turn us into a developing country and I am not saying that the unemployed should all live in hostels.

I am saying that what we class as poverty in this country is, IMO, way above the line that should be classed as the poverty line given the state of many people's lives in the world.

I think that everyone should have a roof over their head, and enough to eat but I do not agree that everyone should be able to afford to, for example, have a washing machine or a laptop or branded goods.

My original question merely asked why people feel entitled to such a high standard of living. It is this sense of entitlement that I am questioning.

How do cleaners help people in Africa? if everyone on benefits earnt 10% of their benefits and so claimed 10% less then that 10% of our huge benefits bill could be used to help the really badly off.

Because we have been sold the consumerist dream

Sell your own fucking washing machine and give the proceeds to 'the real poor' then.

should we all nekkid?

did jesus say this?

no it was god, it was those god damn apples

Well the whole thread is idealistic in one or another RTM. The reality is that as a democracy, we have collectively decided who we want to support and to what extent. The current government seems to be cutting their support to the poor of the UK, and we may vote them out for it. There isn't a great deal of support for the idea that we tax people more or cut benefits in order to pay more money to developing countries.

Some people work a certain number of hours or reduce their hours because they just work for the money. Some people choose certain occupations and work certain hours because they want to do that for a range of reasons that aren't just about money. If people individually want to send more of their income to Africa, it is up to them to do that.

Yes.

Why do people have such a sense of entitlement to the benefits they're entitled to?

I think we should be told.

and anyway tillyminto hasnt your son got a really crap stupid name like jockey or summot

Why do you feel entitled to such a high standard of living, Cat?

clothes - i dont disagree but you do know they are talking about decreasing the top rate of tax to increase the tax take?

why is sending money to africa as personal choice, but wanting to reduce the welfare bill as sign of a bad person, IYO?

You actually said that people on ESA, disabled people, should live in hostels. I don't recall your solution for the unemployed.

Another way in which the OP's burbling is confused is that she imagines GDP is created by how hard individual people work.

Which makes it a bit tricky to explain why China - the country she cites as hard-working - has a GDP only about 40% that of the US and about 35% that of the EU.

Despite China having 4 times the population of the US and nearly 3 times the population of the EU. My goodness, those people in China must really be lazy, eh?

Alternatively, individual personal morality workiness makes fuck all difference to GDP.

Agincourt no son but i could just agree with you!

Jockey Minto and his younger brother Summot Minto

Why do you feel entitled to such a high standard of living, Cat? I work for my standard of living.

i thought the top rate of tax was actually for earners getting 150k or more or have you all been reading what they want you to buy into it?

i like jockey minti or summot minto, it's so western :o movies that is, not anti east

there are lots of TMs. we are scousers..... its means 'a women with ideas above her station'

catontheroof Wed 07-Mar-12 18:56:43
Why do you feel entitled to such a high standard of living, Cat? I work for my standard of living.

so erm carers don't work for their benefit then?

wanna swap?

I don't think reducing the welfare bill is a bad thing, and reducing consumption certainly isn't. I don't think that people working longer hours is the solution to that, particularly when so much work in the UK isn't essential and is itself a waste of resources. The solutions would be in building social housing to reduce the housing benefit bill, and improving housing stock so that heating wasn't so expensive. If people lived in housing of a decent quality, there wouldn't be as many people with preventable impairments.

i have no idea how you would sell reducing consumption to most voters

You work for your standard of living.

So do people who work in heavy, manual jobs for 40+ hours per week not deserve a decent standard of living? Do they not work hard enough to deserve a washing machine?