Confused re attitude to benefits and work experience

[catontheroof]

Your thoughts please - why has it become so politically incorrect to suggest that fit adults in this country should be expected to work for a living?

I believe that we need a safety net but cannot understand why people should not have to take jobs that they are qualified for if those jobs exist. I also cannot understand why people "deserve" tax credits etc.

If large chunks of our population do not work then our GDP is low. The only way that we can afford to have so many on benefits with a relatively high standard of living is by importing goods from other countries where the workers live and work in atrocious conditions.

Why do we think that it is right and proper that people in this country sit around being paid not to work whilst tens of thousands all over the world work in sweat shops to provide them with a lifestyle?

If our fit population all worked then we'd increase GDP and have money to help people in other countries where there is real poverty.

Well other than suggest I should be living in a hostel, which would ghettoise those made redundant with the resultant stigma making job hunting more difficult. Being made redundant is a kick in the teeth, being evicted from your home the self same day as punishment for no longer having a job would make it 100X worse.

Op said I shouldn't own my computer even though it was bought with money from wages before redundancy. That same computer is what is used to apply for jobs. Should people also give up all their possessions they day they lose their job?

When I was made redundant I did not claim a single benefit I took the first job I could get which was only part time. I didn't think oh good I'll just work part time because I couldn't be bothered it was oh a job it's better than nothing. I kept job hunting and didn't claim even though I was a single parent at the time. I did without just to survive but lost my home anyway. Yet OP thinks she can accuse me of expecting too much of a living.

Things got better when I met DH and we bought a couple of things with wages. We were below the tax credit levels but didn't claim as we could manage the basics if we were careful. We only made a claim at the end of last year when DH was made redundant when I was 37 weeks pregnant. He gets contribution based JSA until June, we have been turned down for every other benefit. Yet OP feels she can accuse me of being overly entitled.

Neither of us have turned down a job, neither of us have been offered a job despite applying for any job we are remotely capable of doing. Quite frankly I don't know what else OP expects us to do. She claims that there should be a safety net then contradicts herself.

Well when CBJSA runs out it will be the final straw financially. So if we have had no luck in job hunting by then OP will get her wish. We will be evicted, have to give up all our belongings and won't be entitled to help from the homeless team due to rent default. Hopefully it will make the OP happy but I'm not sure it's happening fast enough to be adequate punishment in her book.

fantastic post Huntycat

then i dont think she is talking about you 'if those jobs exist' and for you, they dont.

my personal take is that unemployment is a recession need to be handled completely differently than long term unemployment in the boom years.

Tilly she addressed me directly complaining that we owned a computer that she feels I bought with her money. Even though it was bought with wages before redundancy.

hecuba - i am not trying to defend everything the OP said.

Ways having a computer saves me money:

1. DD can do her homework at home, saving £1.20 bus fare each way to go to library to use public internet. Cost of doing that 4 nights a week would be £9.60/week. The majority of her homework is online.
2. I can buy my clothes from ebay without schlepping around dozens of charity shops hoping I'll find something I like, in my size. Last 'outfits' purchased: Monsoon skirt -£4.00, Fenn, Wright Mason cardigan (new!) - £12.00, Next jeans - £2.80, M&S Cardi £3.75.
3. Buying groceries online using bargain six month delivery pass that cost £12: Saves petrol going to shop and takes away the temptation of buying anything non-essential.
4. Using price comparison sites to hunt down bargains. Fridge - local shops: £129, online price: £99. (Printed out webpage and my local shop price-matched.)
5. Doing online surveys: earnings approx £100/year for practically no effort.
6. Being able to access my Open University course whenever I need to: priceless.

Someone asked whether OP was Edwina Curry. I don't think she is. Her intellect and rounded arguments suggest to me that she is, in fact, Katie Hopkins.

we can probably all agree (including the OP?) that some of what she said was a bit ranty & also extreme.

But i have seen posts where some MNer believe that they should be full time parents to 12year old (no SN), totally reliant on the benefits system (i.e. not low paid & topped up).

so over 12 years off work to raise just one child? completely paid for by others working, for those 12+ years. no thanks. we appear to have completely lost the plot about what you have to contribute to society.

We? Don't you mean a small minority?

Why does the situation you describe tilly justify people unemployed due to redundancy trying their best to find work getting treated like dirt. These people generally put in a claim for benefits through desperation in an often vain attempt to keep their heads above water. They are NOT living it up as OP seems to think they are.

Quite often these people get very little help from the benefits people (we will soon have no help at all) yet they have to suffer the added indignity of being accused of living it up on the money of strangers.

rabbit - no. a colleague mentioned this morning the britsh poor attitude to work following some program he had seen.

as a culture, we want fame & stuff, dont value hard work and excellence.

I don't want fame I just want a job.

as a culture, we want fame & stuff, dont value hard work and excellence

Or so the media and people like Ian Duncan Smith would have you believe. To be honest, the only person I've ever met who thinks like this was a seven year old girl whose parents sent her to stage school every week.

DP is a HT in London & this is normal. e.g

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12525317

(& i am not going to believe it is a conpriacy between the BBC, National Institute of Adult Continuing Education etc.)

I think a bit of dreaming goes on, especially when we have shows like X Factor etc. my 17 year old niece would love all the fame but is sensibly in college and working part time to support herself a bit (and buy the stuff she likes ).

So yeah I can see that this is possible but I think MOST kids realise their dream is just that - a dream, and they adjust their lives accordingly.

Tilly: Not sure what that link has to do with 'fame and stuff' ?

TheRealityTillyMinto - do you really think this hankering for fame and fortune is cause by a benefits culture? That seems bizarre and illogical thinking to me.

wolly, the other half - things that arent valued: hard work and excellence. the link says:

"Research has shown that those with poor maths skills are far more likely to be out of work, or to be stuck in low-paid jobs. Carol Taylor, director of operations at NIACE, said the UK had a "huge numeracy problem" but many people saw being bad at maths as a "badge of honour".

No. Still don't understand how this is relevant to the thread, or to your claim that all we want is fame and 'stuff' (whatever stuff is.)

rabbit - no. as to wolly

sorry woolly not wolly

stuff = material possetions = high standard of living refered to in OP (but i am talking generally about british culture)

the link is about a cause of unemployment & stuck in low paid jobs.

Ah, so it's because people want to be popstars that they can't be bothered to work out how to do maths.... Silly me. What about those politicians who had a "classical" education and also happily say they are poor at maths???

It seems to me it's those who ought to know better who encourage an obsession with getting rich quick. ie those in work who make a profit out of advertising hedonism.

no its about a culture of entitlement (i am not talking about benefits here, but general entitlement to UK standard of living), not being realistic about how competitive the world is, how hard to you to work to cover your bills etc etc.

yes to your second post.