tell me I've dreamt this - DC proposing to give tax breaks to the middle classes (who can already afford this) to help them pay for their cleaners/nannies/gardeners????

[ssd]

surely not?

what planet is he on??

Lots of people work 11 hour days 5 days a week without a cleaner. It is not an essential. I say that as someone who does use a cleaner Si this is not jealousy or some kind of inverse snobbery.

I accept the point about perhaps having more tax going into the economy. Although when people fiddle benefits that is a great crime. When people fiddle the system by paying their cleaners cash in hand that is understandable.

The cleaner thing - surely if everyone is out of the house all day there isn't so much mess?
Sorry just a random thing but I've always wondered about that!

I typed out a huge post and lost it, but basically I agree with blueydragon.

I agree with childcare being tax deductible. I physically cannot get to work without having childcare. I earn too much to get any tax credits but not enough to pay for full childcare. So this would have been a great help for both low and middle earners.

However I can work without my cleaner. I suspect it is only higher earners who have cleaners and I just do not think at this time that supporting people on higher wages is a priority. I can afford to pay for my cleaner, if I couldn't I would do it myself , no great hardship.

They are spinning it like it will create jobs.

In reality it will give tax breaks to those who can already afford it, and do nothing for those who cannot. Its probably a gimmick to make up for the loss of CB.

You are not looking at the tax impact of all this, chaps.

This is a tax break that costs the taxpayer nothing. And in fact generates lots of extra tax through being able to trace the employees and catch lots of tax. This is a GOOD THING. It really is

I get the tax thing. I think.

Although will it generate income as they are losing money from the orginal tax payer. I may be being thick, my excuse is that I am a little woozy from medication.

Surely some (many?) cleaners will be under the tax threshold? I don't know how many hours they do on average, sorry. And then as molly says you have lost the tax from the employer. NI will be paid though.

It is not that it costs the tax payer nothing more that in a time when some people are losing even the most basic things and are struggling to eat/heat their homes etc it seems like a bit of a kick in the teeth to do this.

Are you not better off getting tax from me at 40 % than a cleaner on a much lower wage, perhaps even under the threshold?

What about a tax break to buy ready made bung in the oven dinners for everyone who is too busy/knackered/lazy to cook!

Exactly noddy it just shows either a level of political naivety or that the government just does not give a shit and is trying to cause further divide and resentment.

Quattro what are the mechanics of a "tax break"?

I would quite like a tax break for someone to shag my husband when I am too tired to bother, or the other way around.

This is about making more and more people traceable tax payers and improving unemployment figures. It also costs the Government nothing and that is why childcare is not included. It is naive to think this is about giving anyone a tax break - it is about spin and artificially creating a more rosy glow around employment.

However, I will continue to pay my cleaner and gardener cash in hand of that is what they want. I am currently paying my builder (who I know very well anyway) cash in hand to do renovations to my house. It is saving me 20% on his day rate so is a no brainer for us both as far as I am concerned.

Molly that too would bring a large undertaxed sector into the governments coiffers great idea.

Does this mean that you pay your cleaner £10 per hour then pay £4 less tax yourself so you only have to find £6 per hour?

If so then surely the govt get less tax from the person who employs the cleaner?

I agree with brandy, the assumption is that many cleaners/gardeners don't pay the tax owed or claim benefits without declaring their income. This policy could decrease the benefit bill and unemployment rates over night.

The economy is going to be saved by odd job men. Hooray

?his will not help people that have been most affected by the cuts though.

They do this in Belgium under a "service cheque" system. You buy the cheques - each one cost 7.50 and pays for one hours domestic help ie cleaning, ironing, shopping. You can claim back about 2.50 of that against tax. For each cheque the govt pays the agency about 20 euros. So the low paid employee actually does better out of this than cash in hand, has tax, NI and insurance paid for them. So it's a win win situation - unless you are a black market employee. It encourages working families to employ help, and also means more people are employed.

Sounds very similar to the French system, Porto, except here your bank provides a service cheque book and you can make them out for any amount. The bank pays out the amount of the cheque to the employee and debits your account accordingly, then the government debits the relevant NI contributions a few days later and issues the employee with a pay slip!

Yes but the Government have no intention of helping people that have been most affected by the cuts because they don't give a fuck - just be clear about that. Making the middle class think they are having a tax break at the expense of illegal cash in hand workers really works for them and costs them nothing and improves the 'view' of how things are. This sector of the public have been chosen because they are the hardcore voters and so giving them something and also ruling out 'cash in hand illegals' is actually very powerful. You give a tax break and you also get to stop people going under the radar tax wise - perfect tory policy really.

This government have absolutely no intention of improving the lot of disabled people and their families (and others affected particularly by the cuts), none whatsoever because they are the minority and are by definition marginalised and 'other'. The cuts they have made will only serve to reinforce this further.

Yes but the Government have no intention of helping people that have been most affected by the cuts because they don't give a fuck - just be clear about that. Making the middle class think they are having a tax break at the expense of illegal cash in hand workers really works for them and costs them nothing and improves the 'view' of how things are. This sector of the public have been chosen because they are the hardcore voters and so giving them something and also ruling out 'cash in hand illegals' is actually very powerful. You give a tax break and you also get to stop people going under the radar tax wise - perfect tory policy really.

This government have absolutely no intention of improving the lot of disabled people and their families (and others affected particularly by the cuts), none whatsoever because they are the minority and are by definition marginalised and 'other'. The cuts they have made will only serve to reinforce this further.

For 90% cleaners i know, it's part time work - 3 hrs here, 2 hours there.. they don't earn enough to pay tax ... Yet another ill thought out notion from David Arsewipe. Totally agree with brandy.

What Quattro said. The irony of people accusing Phillip Green of tax evasion while being happy to be tax evaders themselves- by paying domestic workers cash in hand, avoid VAT on things builders and not declaring goods at customs over £145 when they come in from outside the EU - never fails to amuse me. These examples are actually where hmrc lose the most tax revenues.