Cap child tax credit after four children, says MP

[SardineQueen]

here

One of nadine's friends!

I'm not surprised to see this from a conservative MP, as ever I think this sort of thing is a terrible idea - children don't choose to be born and by restricting benefits in this way you are punishing the children for something you disapprove of the parents doing. And as I understand it the number of people with no work ever and loads of children is actually very low? So this sort of policy doesn't actually save much money at all. Can't remember where I saw that though.

I am sure there will be some who disagree. I thought that people who post here might be interested anyway.

hunty- I have never once said all poor people neglect their children. i am saying that they should be able to feed and clothe their children on the benefits they are given, and if they can't, it isn't they aren't getting enough benefits, they just are not putting their children first for whatever reason, in deciding how they should spend those benefits.

lets face it- rent paid, council tax paid, and then however much you get in cash benefits, if this isn't enough what should be done??

So, based on the experiences of your foster son, you are extrapolating out that all poor people spend their benefits on stuff for themselves and leave their dc to starve.

Words ACTUALLY fail me.

I give up. I actually do. MN is TOO depressing right now. If you are poor, you are the scum of the earth, you should not breed, and when you do, we fully expect you to neglect your children, so we ought to take them all away and forcibly sterilise the whole lot of you proles.

hunty- please tell me where I have said ALL poor people???

If what I am saying wasn't the case, and the opinion of many, why does the term 'dependancy culture' even exist??? the reality is, there will always be some people who choose government hand outs as a lifestyle choice, hence why these cuts to tax credits are being proposed.

Hahahahahahahahaha at ringing SS to see how many poor v rich neglect or abuse their children. I don't need to, I have two SW in my family and they'd tell YOU that there's no divide. In fact, my Uncle was called to a well known footballer on a case of DV (again, affects the children). Of course the "poor" neglect their children but it's NOT because they are on benefits it's because they are shit parents. Benefits don't make a bad parent, people are or they aren't. Likewise if they are rich. Not all wealthy people are good parents. EVERY street in every City, rich or poor, a child will be treated poorly. I'll say it again... Put down the Daily Mail.

Scarlettsmummy - I have added up how much it costs for a full set of clothes and shoes and trainers and school uniform and coats and underwear and socks and school bags for each dc. It comes to more in the year than I get in Child benefit. If it wasn't for Ex-P stepping up financially with DS2 and DS3, and paying for half of the cost of their school uniform, coats and school shoes, I would have the choice, after paying my utility bills, of either buying school shoes for my dc or feeding them.

Add up how much it costs YOU for a full set of children's clothes. Say, for a 13yo who needs adult sizes due to being 5ft3. Or a 9yo who is in teenagers clothes due to being 4ft9 tall, and a size 4.5 shoe. And then tell me you could pay that out of, well, for 4 dc I get £242 Child benefit every 4 weeks - but that is split 4 ways - £60.50 each per month. Include EVERYTHING. Plimsolls for PE, trainers for outdoor PE, trainers for home as PE trainers have to stay at school. Coat. Pants. Socks. Vests. Pyjamas. Dressing gown. School uniform - no grants here. School shoes. PE kit. Clothes for at home.

Even shopping in Tescos and Asda - it DOESN'T GO VERY FAR.

The only things I prioritise are my utility bills, their clothing and my dc's travel to school.

Yes, but why do people want to penalise those who aren't like that? Are they 'acceptable collateral damage'? Are their CHILDREN 'acceptable collateral damage'?

Because by coming on MN and spouting sheer venom at anyone daring to claim tac credits/benefits and have more than 4 kids - you are making a sweeping generalisation that includes some good, upstanding, hard working people. My motto is to never judge. It makes you look a twat.

That post wasn't to you hunty

i think thats two children too many

I may not have ever had to live on benefits and i hope to never have to, however I have been broke, with less than £90 a week to live on after paying childcare and the mortgage, to pay for food and petrol and for a baby and any unexpected bills and I admit it was very hard, but at the end of the day, I did it. And this was when I was working full time.

so therefore it should be feasible for someone who isn't working and has no petrol costs to be able to live on a similar amount of jsa/ child benefit. No??

Actually I will edit that post re being no divide. Of course there is, there is more neglect in poor areas. It comes down to a lack of education, money, alcoholism, drugs. Benefits don't come into it.

hunty- surely you get a school uniform grant??? in the county I live in those on low incomes certainly do???

and fanny- I think if you read my post I make it clear that i fully understand that people from every background can abuse or neglect their children?? i think you are misunderstanding the legal definition of neglect vs abuse?? neglect is when a childs physical needs are not being met, mostly due to poverty? Abuse is where the child is being physically or psychologically harmed?? Go and read up on it, before YOU make sweeping generalisations and deliberately misinterpret what I have actually written

Erm, I may not have to pay for petrol - but I HAVE to pay £50 a week bus fares to get my dc to school, being just 0.1mile too close to qualify for free transport, despite the fact that DS2 has chronic asthma, hypermobility syndrome and hypotonia. So I still have travel costs. Or do you propose I stop sending my Dc to school? So out of my CTC, I have to pay £50 a week BEFORE I have bought any food, why do you think someone on benefits has no travel costs? What about costs to get to your JCP to sign on? Or travel costs to look for work? Or travel costs to GET to the food shop and get it home? Or does the food magically appear on the table for people on benefits?

And last time I worked - I had a LOT less than £90 left over after paying childcare and rent.

There was a poster here the other day asking for help with how to she and her kids could live on £40 a week.

hunty- and also- why wouldn't your children's father be expected to pay for half their uniform?? he is their dad!

Nope, no-one in Essex has been able to get a uniform grant for at least 5 years, scarlettsmummy.

Because it is over and above his 20% maintenance, which helps to FEED them, he still has to pay his OWN rent - and it sometimes leaves both him and me WITHOUT FOOD in order to buy our dc school shoes. And he DOES work FT.

i am not getting into a debate of who is poorest.

i don't believe that bus fares for children would be £50 a week unless you had about ten of them, when currently I spend £10 a week on return to travel and that is for an adult fare?? how much are you paying per child for a two mile journey?? that is the distance that legally councils can expect a child to walk?

Also, it is partly so expensive because the NHS no longer provide piedro shoes for dc with orthotic needs for dc over 5yo - we are told by the orthotist on the phone the order number for DS2's shoes - which cost over £120 a pair...

A £35 pair of Clarks shoes are no good for him, the NHS no longer have the funds for dc that are over 5yo and can walk, they have a long enough list of dc who CAN'T walk that need splints.

It is 3 miles for children in Y3 and above, scarlettsmummy. And it is £4 a day for myself, and £3 a day each for the dc. Hence £10 a day. Not rocket science.

My friend works part time as cabin crew. She's a single parent.
She gets £1200 take home pay.
£650 tax credits.
£250 maintenance from exH.
She has 2 children.

Look at the above figures and tell me what's wrong with it.

I'll give you a clue.... The maintenance.

(Bear in mind it is 4 journeys for me, and I also have disabilities).

scarlettsmummy2 we are not debating who is poorest. You asked

"so therefore it should be feasible for someone who isn't working and has no petrol costs to be able to live on a similar amount of jsa/ child benefit. No??"

We are trying to educate to you why it is in fact so difficult for many people to live on benefits, as you obviously have no idea. Please have the decency to try to listen to what people are saying. You might learn something.

HuntyCat - I think you should change your name to RantyCat :o