Cap child tax credit after four children, says MP

[SardineQueen]

here

One of nadine's friends!

I'm not surprised to see this from a conservative MP, as ever I think this sort of thing is a terrible idea - children don't choose to be born and by restricting benefits in this way you are punishing the children for something you disapprove of the parents doing. And as I understand it the number of people with no work ever and loads of children is actually very low? So this sort of policy doesn't actually save much money at all. Can't remember where I saw that though.

I am sure there will be some who disagree. I thought that people who post here might be interested anyway.

They have got a guy from Conservative Home on the well-paid BBC's Andrew Marr show on right now. He says voters want reductions in benefits for families etc. He says that the Church is against it and implies that is why they are "out of touch" with the voters.

Thank God for that, thank God for the Church. They will eventually be the only ones standing up for the people when the elites and their green gurus really implement their low growth cuts policies.

colditz, there are millions of families who don't receive all these benefits - the squeezed middle. People in work, but on low wages, who can't afford the ever increasing fuel and energy prices. They don't get enough help.

But the suits on their plush red sofas on their TV broadcasts don't talk about them.

I agree with it, but it should only apply to those children born after it starts. If you already have more then you would keep your meal tickets.

Immigrants are working and finding work here because the indiginous population won;t work in those jobs for the same money as they can get by sitting on their arses being supported by everyone else.

I'd introduce workfare and /or national service. Especially for young, fit , feral males. It would do them the world of good to have work, exercise, focus, discipline nad raised self esteem and would make many of them into useful and employable members of society.

You have a low opinion of the British people. That's the message you are being fed, about scroungers and feckless indigenous British people and hard working more productive immigrants.

Do you think that the army veteran found dead next to his wife in his house just sat on his arse?

'feral males'

that's how they want you to think about our young unemployed men. That way it is all their fault and they get what they deserve when the cuts are introduced.

'I've already laid out the figures for someone on benefits and, as usual, nobody has taken any notice of them.'

Colditz, I have always taken note of everything you have ever posted on MN, and I am going back many years.

I used to teach hundreds of these young men, in prison and in schools and special schools.

Many were feral. And disengaged, disenchanted, anti social, frightening, aggressive, badly parented and desperately, horribly sad.

Many were fabulous young men underneath but would never reach their potential, they were wasted before they were even twenty. A good number wanted to join the forces but would never have been accepted so they stole and took drugs and wasted some more.

National and community service would have saved them. it would have given them structure and skills and discipline.
It is obscene that so many young men are wasted like this and we need to re engage them.

Thousands of young women are in the same position of course, but many of them get pregnant and repeat the cycle.

Claig, it is disingenuous to suggest that the people are nothing but victims of a sinister trap.
True to some extent but there is more to it than that.
I myself have dealt with hundreds,nay,thousands of people for whom 'feral' would be a polite description.

We have TV programmes with names like 'Shameless" that portray the British working class as thieving, feckless scroungers. But they don't make any TV programmes about army veterans struggling to make ends meet, about homeless ex-soldiers living on the streets, about Salvation Army volunteers, about working class people struggling against the odds.

That's why so many people talk about feckless, feral indigeneous people and the right wing think tank idiot says things like

"These people have now eaten so many carrots it's amazing they haven't turned into rabbits."

Yes, moondog, some people's moral compass has deteriorated. But it is due to an abandonment of education and moral guidance. The messages they receive, the rhetoric they hear, how they are treated - constantly told that they are feckless, feral. It risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Society has destroyed jobs, employment and hope. No wonder there is despair.

You see TV programmes with rooms full of 18 year olds being atught how to write CVs. But these are CVs for jobs that don't exist.

So how come 500 immigrants are finding jobs every week( month!)?

George Orwell knew how it worked.

Big Brother ignored the proles. They could do what they wanted. They were ignored and abandoned. As long as Big Brother kept the well-paid Inner Party suits on their plush red sofas in line, everything was fine. The proles didn't count. I'm surprised that Big Brother didn't also say what the right wing think tank idiot said

"These people have now eaten so many carrots it's amazing they haven't turned into rabbits."

While there is certainly a shortage of jobs, as someone who works trying to get young people into employment, I see day in day out many that really are virtually unemployable. That is reality unfortunately, however this has been the case for years and years, probably since the 1970's.

kind of agree about the education system. DD1 (5) is in Year 1. They stopped testing her for her reading as it was quite far ahead, but meanwhile give her awards for, 'trying hard...' and, 'having a good attitude...'

The teacher says they aren't supposed to reward the achievement, but rather the process

Guess it's the same sort of thing at job centers?

'So how come 500 immigrants are finding jobs every week( month!)?'

Are they? Where are these figures from? And how many indigenous people are finding work every week too? I bet there are a lot more - but you aren't told about them.

'I see day in day out many that really are virtually unemployable. That is reality unfortunately, however this has been the case for years and years, probably since the 1970's.'

Yes, and that is the shocking record of our education system that has led to this.

'They stopped testing her for her reading as it was quite far ahead'

Yes, she might get ideas above her station. Proles are supposed to be feckless, so that won't do.

totally agree. I personally think it has been caused by the comprehensive system. Germany has stuck with a two tier system that has shown great results and they have really excellent technical schools. It isn't seen as negative thing in Germany at all.

Exactly right, scarletmummy2.

Ken Livingstone was on the Andrew Marr show this morning and said that we had destroyed our jobs for the people over the years, whereas Germany never did. They are the powerhouise of Europe and it is due to their people being in employment. Our people are not feckless scoungers, we could have done the same if employment was available.

The type of employment is wealth creating goods producing activity, not more "sustainability officers", "climate change coordinators" and "community football development liaison officers".

'Yes, moondog, some people's moral compass has deteriorated. But it is due to an abandonment of education and moral guidance.'

I agree and idsagree.
Education is, as a rule, dire.
There is no reason why all but the most disabled shoudl not be literate, numerate and with a basdic undrstanding of time keeping and self discipline.
These aspects are not focussed on in many schools. On the contrary, contemporary education, particularly of 'troubled yoof' focusses on building 'self esteem'.
What the mandarins overlook is that unless this is founded on solid concrete achievement, it means nothing.
Feeling proud of your fancy 'record' of achievement' which is full of downloaded pictures and text the teacher has written can't exist, primarily because you can't even read it.

Kids are told they are great, special and marvellous yet have no real achievement to back it up with. I recall an individual of my acquaintance recently who was quite put out that his sea based job experience didn't involve jet skiiing.

Unless we inculcate in all that success is generally built on hard work and getting the basics of a good education, we are all quite frankly, fucked.

I spend a large proportion of my own time, teaching my children thet things that do not seem of priority in their school-proper spelling, nice handwriting, a sound foundation in basic maths skills, reading aloud every day.

Concerts, visits from 'community officers', anti smoking workshops and watcihng dvds for charidee whilst wearing wacky clothes mean that these things are left by the wyaside.

Most kids learn in spite of how they are taught, not because of how/what they are taught.

So very true Moondog.

I am extraordinarily pleased with my children's school, I have a year 10 and a year 9 but I am rather amazed at how they are spoon fed to pass their GCSE courses. They appear to be far less rigorous than O levels and that can only be to make our children appear cleverer than they actually are in comparison to the rest of the world.

However pleased I am with the school I won't be encouraging my year ten son to take part in Work Experience this year. I'm booking him into a tutor to go over the important basics in Maths & English. I feel that Work Experience is a total waste of time and it's a great excuse to get year 10's out of the school while year 7 &8 are on residentials and year 9 have an "activity" week

'I'm booking him into a tutor to go over the important basics in Maths & English.'

Sounds liek an excellent idea.
The tragedy is that many peopel do not have the money or ability to do this themselves.

I really like my children's school and the staff. I know thay are at the mercy of orders from on high.
One particular initiative that rendered me apoplectic was learning that my child had been signed up to an 'anti-smoking club' which involves being sent glossy magazines, bagbacks and other crap on a regular basis.
I've sent it all back, told them to deregister her and put in an FOI request as to how much all of this is costing.