Denmark introduces "fat tax"

[longfingernails]

news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16081190

We should do the same - and use the money to pay for an income tax cut.

'So who's first against the wall then Claig'

Erm, did I mention a wall?
What a bizarre world you inhabit, Cogito.
Don't you know that it's only planners who put people against walls?

'Even if they're a penny each bought bulk, that's... well... you do the maths.'

What do you think it costs them in electricity to run a store and keep the freezers operational? That will dwarf the cost of the plastic bags. The plastic bag thing is not about saving supermarkets money, just as the 'fat tax' is not about saving Denmark money. Even you realised it would harm their farming industry.

What do you think it costs them in electricity to run a store and keep the freezers operational? That will dwarf the cost of the plastic bags. The plastic bag thing is not about saving supermarkets money,...

It may well be that other costs may dwarf the cost of plastic bags, but every little helps...

So because they spend a lot on electricity, they shouldn't save money somewhere else?

You know that Tesco slogan 'Every Little Helps'? I work with them and, whether it's internally or externally, their speciality is squeezing the pips out of costs wherever they can. If they can save a few million by not giving out so many plastic bags,- or sticking solar panels on roofs, or making delivery vehicles use less gas - why wouldn't a company do that?

Jinx1906, I use the free plastic bags supplied by Tesco as do millions of other citizens. We don't all believe the dodgy dossiers and the planners' pronouncements. Most people ignore the spin and hype. They are not as daft as the planners think.

Supermarkets are competitive, they shave pennies off their products in order to entice more people into their stores. Supermarkets that offer free strong plastic bags will attract more customers than those who don't. I wouldn't shop at a supermarket which charged me for plastic bags, and nor would many other people.

Supermarkets want to make their customers happy, they train their staff to provide good service and they offer you help with packing your bags. They would not shoot themselves in teh foot by trying to make profit from plastic bags. The plastic bag thing is not about saving money, it's about "hearts and minds". The planners are educating teh public for their future policy pronouncements about rationing.

They are cutting back the welfare state, they are increasing pensionable age, they are saying "you can't have something for nothing", even though people have paid taxes all their lives. They are talking about the "deserving" poor, and they haven't yet mentioned the "underserving" poor (but don't worry they haven't forgotten them). They are training the public to accept austerity, to swallow massive reductions in living standards and benefits that they have been paying for. They are readying the public for the "carbon footprint" tax and "saving the planet" and plastic bags are a small part of the education process.

'I work with them'

If you do, then you ought to understand that a good business does not cheese its customers off by telling them they can't have free plastic bags to carry their shopping home. You're a Tory who doesn't read the Daily Mail (you don't like teh values it upholds), do you actually shop in Tesco with the people? They give you free plastic bags.

Why do you think arch discounters Aldi charge for bags? Why do you suppose they rattle their customers through their tills as fast as possible and then ask them to pack their own bag at a table afterwards? It's got nothing to do with 'planners' or this 'hearts and minds' thing you keep banging on about, but because you get more people through the checkouts per hour. This requires fewer staff and lower overheads... something reflected in their rock-bottom retail prices.

You may refuse to shop at a place that doesn't give you a bag for free or expects you to pack it yourself but many don't mind at all. In fact, the biggest growing retailers in the UK for the last 3 years have been Aldi, Lidl and Netto so they haven't shot themselves in the foot at all. Their customers are quite happy to bring along their own bag etc., if they can have some cheap prices in return.

Yes, I'm a Conservative voter that doesn't like the Daily Mail. (Go figure!) I find it racist, alarmist and I don't like the way it panders to lowest common denominator prejudice. I spend half my time reassuring my eldery DM-reading parents that they are not about to be ... forcibly converted to Islam, attacked by evil foreigners, poisoned or given cancer by various foodstuffs. But most of all, as a single mother, they make it very clear how much hate people like me.... so, unless I'm really short of lavatory paper, why would I waste a penny on trash like that? :)

Yes, Aldi etc. have been successful because people are cutting costs and going for the best price. But it comes down to product range. Customer service is the key to keeping customers. That's why companies spend so much money training their staff. Of course, many people bring their own bags, but the majority don't, and no sensible business would tell them to, because a good business listens to the majority, just like a good government listens and serves the people.

I have not stopped shopping with M&S because they started charging for plastic bags and I would not change to a different supermarket because they give me a free or stronger bag. I understand that a supermarket like any other business is about making money but I'm not convinced about the environment argument. If they were to give the money saved by saving plastic bags etc to an organisation who is actively taking action against global warming by planting trees etc ...than that would be a different matter altogether but from where I'm standing it seems to be all about raising cash in the name of the environment.

Bags have never been truly free of charge anyway, the cost of providing them is taken in to consideration in the pricing of their products. There is no such things as a free lunch. Somewhere down the line someone will always pick up the bill.

It sounds like you have been listening to New Labour.

Now you're just contradicting yourself Claig. Aldi are successful and have told their customers to bring their own bag and pack it themselves. They are a sensible business and they can do both

Sorry....the Daily Mail is New Labour now?....This is new...

'Bags have never been truly free of charge anyway, the cost of providing them is taken in to consideration in the pricing of their products. There is no such things as a free lunch. Somewhere down the line someone will always pick up the bill.'

Yes you are right. I agree with all of that. Of course the plastic bag thing is not about the environment, but it's also not about saving money, it's about education.

M&S is a great shop, but the majority of people find it expensive for food. To get a feel for what teh majority think, it is always worth reading what the majority read. That's what clever governments do, so that the house flippers can still be in touch with people on the street.

'the Daily Mail is New Labour now'

most certainly not. What you say about the Daily Mail is teh type of thing you might hear at a New Labour meeting or a newspaper article written by a progressive.

Yes, Aldi are a very good business. But they don't have the market share or make the profits of Tesco.

sorry, should have added

"or a newspaper article written by a progressive" or a planner.

I want a tax on fizzy soft drinks, they are not doing any good except giving the world a sweet tooth. (champagne and beer exempt)

Exactly, Riven. They are anti butter for the reason that it is healthy. The planners never mention the dangers of GM food, frankenfood, and additives like aspartame. That's all nice and dandy. It's eggs, butter and meat that they want to warn the public about.

So I don't know what the majority think because I like shopping at M&S?

I'm also truly fascinated as why you think I would have been listening to new labour?

I have a Lidl close by (pretty much the same concept as Aldi) and every time I pop in there I always notice how friendly the checkout people are opposed to my local Tesco where most of the staff have a face as if they are on death row. Does Tesco save money on smiles too?

Sugar is big, big business. It creates enough money to tell us that "natural" unprocessed food like eggs, meat are "bad" for us. It makes my blood boil.

Jinx1906, I hope you haven't been listening to New Labour. I was referring to our Conservative, Cogito.

I think that people who shop at Fortnums or even M&S for food, may not be as in touch with the majority of the public over their views of plastic bags at supermarkets. But I am glad you aren't one of them.

The staff in Tesco are always very friendly and full of smiles when I go there. I don't know what is wrong with your area.

They should tax bollocks instead. Of the verbal kind.

But then Johann Hari would be skint.

oh and George Monbiot and ...
the list is endless

Erm, by passing most of this very odd tangential thread:

Fat tax is daft because as others have said we need some fat. So essentially you are punishing the poor (again) for trying to buy foods which are vital to their sustained healthy diet (thinking particularly of dairy here).

I'm not totally convinced by a sugar tax either, because although sugar is an unneccessary substance (unlike fat) I think producers would probably just swap the sugar in their products for artificial sweetners... I'd rather have real sugar personally.