The U.K. Riots And The Coming Global Class War

[ttosca]

Forbes magazine says: Capitalism isn't working

The riots that hit London and other English cities last week have the potential to spread beyond the British Isles. Class rage isn?t unique to England; in fact, it represents part of a growing global class chasm that threatens to undermine capitalism itself.

www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2011/08/15/u-k-riots-global-class-war/

oh but it is sustainable, very much so in fact. with tax breaks to the rich and benefit cuts to the poor. where huge multinationals are in bed with governments and influence campaigns and fund them too.

and we hope against hope that the wc will get so pissed off that they will show it. but we won't and things will not change and the power of the people will not force change

we are forced into a position where you feel lucky and privilaged to have a job - any job, despite how hard you have worked your life to get your training, or experience or qualifications - non of these secure a jot.

then there is no job security, so as an employee you can be exploited, becuase despite the fact that employment laws are there, things can be done ver subtly - and not even that most of the time. if you are expected to start earlier and work later - be grateful you have a job.

drive 130 miles daily - just so you can be employed in a temporary position.

but thank your lucky stars when you are doing it.

we're so bloody thankful it makes me sick

Bollocks, custardo.

The riots had nothing to do with employment issues.

The riots had everything to do with people who've got nothing better to do, by choice.

up the worker

Nice sentiment.

Up the drug dealer would be more appropriate.

I can understand why kids from workless households would riot. What hope do they have of getting anything they want in their future? If you were a teen and saw your parents 'wasting their life away' (I can't prove this obviously, I am just empathising), and you knew you had no chance to better yourself education-wise, you were destinined for a life on the dole or an even worse off (for money and time) life of drudgery at a factory or supermarket...how would you feel? Would you want to go out and cause trouble if you thought you could get away with it?

bollocks yourself i didn't mention the riots

I agree, Dessert, that even if their general hopelessness wasn't a direct cause of the riots, it might well be an underlying cause. If you feel you've got nothing to lose, you're more likely not to care about the consequences of your actions. And you're more likely to be up for causing trouble, because you'd be angry that a few people seem to have so much, but you have nothing.

I am not justifying anyone, btw - it's still totally unacceptable. And I don't think poverty and unemployment are the only causes.

You won't be able to make any reasonable analysis of any sociological phenomenon if you cannot separate the understanding of something from justifying it.

If you just want to moralise from a great height, then fine. But don't pretend that shouting 'bad bad bad!' gets you any closer to understand and therefore preventing 'bad' things from happening again.

Not according to current statistics.

Graduates are losing out big time, these days.

The kids earning the most money are the ones who left school at sixteen.

You may not have mentioned them, custard, but you chose to post on a thread about riots.

Dear me ..

I agree jjkm. I have been brought up in a family where a uni education is expected. I grew up watching my grandparents and extended family sacrifice a LOT to send their children to the UK as foreign students paying full fees to get a degree.

I always just assumed I'd pass the same ethos onto my kids. But now I find myself questioning the value. Before it was quite a no-brainer but now the costs are such you really have to make sure the course you do is worth it.

I still think if you wish pursue a career in law, medicine etc then it's a must. But if you just want to go into business then I think you have to look at all your options. Perhaps it is better to get a job whilst younger and get more vocational qualifications. For example I work in IT. Personally if I were interviewing someone, an IT degree would hold little value. A few industry recognised qualifications are far more appealing.

I guess times change and one of the side effects of the last decade where students were encouraged to study crap degrees like "David Beckham Studies" have their expectations raised of a graduate job and simply the economy hasn't grown enough to give all these graduates, jobs which meet their expectations.

"Graduates are losing out big time, these days.

The kids earning the most money are the ones who left school at sixteen."

Desiderata - Where did you find those statistics? I've seen some stats suggesting the pay gap between grads & non grads is closing & this week there was a report suggesting that the 'bottom 20%' of grads earn less than non grads. This trend is not surprising given the increased number of university graduates.

But, as this is a parenting website, I think it's important that we encourage bright dc's to seriously consider university. It still is the best option for a [relatively] well paid and rewarding career.

And refering back to my earlier post, a degree should give your dc the opportunity to benefit from global competition, and not be it's victim.

Oh, and I also think there is a place for 'good' vocational degrees. Maybe you don't need a business studies degree to be an entrepreneur - but do you need people in your company/ support network that do have one - trust me.

There are lots of people that are incentivised to work for things other than purely money.

I think it is a deluded capitalist opinion that increasing taxes, for example, of the wealthiest members of society would mean they would give up and live on benefits, and if they did, so what, there are plenty of people beneath them that would happily do their jobs for a lot less, as this would still be a significant increase for them.

The brightest, most skilled people are hardly in the best paid jobs. Most were got through elitest connections. Hard work is often there too, but unlikely to be HARDER than the majority below them.

"I would guess that the best paid people in society are the ones who have good people/business skills, can make connections, and can get the best and brightest in the industry to work for them"

jjkm totally agree with this.

"Some of the richest people I know never went to a university".

Same here (though we are talking comfortably off - not mega rich).

But in my group everyone of them wishes they had gone to university & believes they would be richer or more successful had they gone. They certainly intend for their dc's to go. They also don't recruit 'non-graduates', at least at entry level.

indeed i did not mention the riots desderat, so i don't expect to be singled out in reference to them

....

i think this is interesting to note that this has turned into 'the richest peole i have met didn't go to uni' type convrsation.

ttosca

State schooling being perfectly adequate if you study hard depends on the school.

I disagree that all teens should have a job - for one, there isn't enough suitable work for them all to do, and for another, if they are working hard on their schooling what time are they going to find to work on top of this.

As for finding a gap in the market and taking a suitable degree - how in heck is a teenager supposed to know what gap in the market there will be, also suiting their temperament and skills after they finish a degree?
As for scrimping and scraping to repay loans, they'll know how to do that alright, we've been living like it for years.

Dessert-

I think you meant someone else.

This gem from Private Eye:

"Those who make the wrong decision, who engage in criminality, must be identified, arrested and punished, and we will make sure that happens." -- 11 August. Home Secretary Theresa May outlines her no-nonsense approach to criminal justice.

"The United Kingdom further states that the criminal prosecution of bank employees due to participation in tax offences is highly unlikely." -- 23 August. Clause in UK-Swiss tax deal agreed by chancellor George Osborne, proving there's one set of laws for Britain's teenage miscreants and another for its bankers.

ttosca

There always has been different laws for the rich and powerful and the rest nothing new there but it does need to be identified as often as possible.

I think the riots were provoked in order to push through unpopular policies. We've not heard the verdict yet on Mark Duggan, apparently Trident had been following him for months. From all accounts it sounds like he was a well-liked man in his local community, helped out with youth footie etc. Doesn't mean he was an angel but whatever he was 'guilty' of, what prevented him from being allowed a fair trial? There'll also be officers present at his funeral, I wonder for whose benefit.

I think most of the damage caused during the riots was allowed to happen. To prove a point. Why were no police seen to be at least attempt stop people stealing, petrol bombing cars etc. They were stood doing nothing, why no arrests at the time the riots were happening, why were they all in the days after?

Then out of nowhere the government talk of pushing through curfews, gang injuctions (whatever that is) and shutting down social networking sites. What do normal people think of this, is it a good thing? To me its says police state. Who's gonna take to the streets in the months to come? The unions, thousands of people that have lost their public sector job, people protesting for a new election, an anti-war protest (iran, syria anyone?). Perhaps thats when these policies will really come in handy, along with the ones Blair brought in after 7/7.

I'm glad some MN types are finally wising up to the ways of the corporate elite lording it over us and their political puppets.....the riots were a perfect, tailor made excuse to criminalise ANY dissent and shut down any nascent revolt. You're not living in the cosy world you previously knew and loved. This is class warfare and you'd better suss out which side you and your kids stand on. Peace!