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Original poster

Now CABs are Closing. This is Just a War on the Poor Isn't It?

78 replies

Tortington · 02/08/2011 06:24

cuts to charities

i think the Big Society lable is a misnoma tbh - i don' think that is the argument at all here. the argument is simply that poor people are getting incresingly screwed, and the govt are taking away any support and therefore right of appeal.

OP posts:
happyinherts · 05/08/2011 06:05

Okay then TartyDoris - what is your objection towards a clever teenager from a low paid household receiving a bit of help towards expensive train fares and equipment for college??

Yes, probably there were recipients who used it as pocket money, but plenty relied upon it and now honest, hardworking families are £30 per week worse off - or are you also suggesting that offspring of lower paid workers shouldn't aspire to greater things.

I have a teenager who more than likely gain 10 A- C Grades this summer, a Grade 8 in music and compete in athletics for GB. However, as a result of his very poor upbringing it's quite likely that a lot of this will have to fall by the wayside due to funds. You think that's fair? And before anyone says 'can't he get a job to fund himself - bear in mind the following -

1 Any aspiring Olympic or international athlete needs to train at least 3 - 4 hours a day - probably more.
2 Also feel its vital to study to AS / A / Degree level as a back up in

case of injury or career failing
3 Tried applying for all manner of summer jobs - not one response
4 Distinct lack of available jobs to fit round no's 1 and 2 above.

So TartyDoris - any more bright ideas?

Original poster
Tortington · 05/08/2011 08:12

what does astroturfing mean?

OP posts:
Solopower · 05/08/2011 08:58

Good luck to your teenager, Happyinherts. I hope he gets the support he needs.

But I would say that it's the ones that show less promise that need the money for education even more, because for them it really is the difference between a life on the dole and one in a fulfilling job. It is so short-sighted to cut money to youngsters!

happyinherts · 05/08/2011 09:29

Thanks solopower, yes i agree with you. All teenagers from lower income families - say around less than £16K who used to qualify for EMA but don't now. It is so short sighted to cut money from youngsters - they are our future

TartyDoris · 05/08/2011 11:05

The problem IMO is that immigrants are doing the jobs that 6th formers and students would previously have done.

TartyDoris · 05/08/2011 11:07

My family didn't have much money but I managed to stay on at school because I had 2 p/t jobs. The idea that we should be paid to go to school wouldn't have even have occured to us, it's crazy. No other country does it to the best of my knowledge.

SpringHeeledJack · 05/08/2011 11:11

this is like putting the poor in the middle of a mined maze, then taking away the map

custard and ttosca- I wuvs you, I does

Original poster
Tortington · 05/08/2011 11:21

TartyDoris Fri 05-Aug-11 11:05:35
The problem IMO is that immigrants are doing the jobs that 6th formers and students would previously have done.
------

THERE WE ARE! Wink

OP posts:
happyinherts · 05/08/2011 11:54

I'm sad you see it as paying people to go to school - I see it more as investing in future talent that may go unnoticed as parents wage packets have been swallowed up in mortgage, council tax and transports costs against a tide of cutbacks. If you dont invest in young talent, what do you have?

TartyDoris · 05/08/2011 12:34

Why does no other country feel the need to pay children to go to school? What is it about Britain that makes it necessary?

THERE WE ARE!
You don't think it's a valid point?

imright · 05/08/2011 17:24

Perhaps TartyDoris.Immigrants have taken all the Saturday jobs that children used to have before they were paid to go to school! In fact what's wrong with getting a Saturday job? There seem plenty of foreigners doing this jobs in pound shops/cafes/McDonalds etc. Paying children to attend school was and is not viable.
Happyinherts. People have always paid 'mortgage,council tax, transport costs' etc. The difference was that people like me, when we were young got jobs whilst in school. I and many people I knew were extremely poor, it did not stop us working! People should not expect handouts from the state, they should try to get jobs!

ironman · 05/08/2011 18:01

'work' a four letter word I try to avoid using on here....in case I'm shot down in flames!Grin

Lifeissweet · 05/08/2011 18:22

It's like Tory bingo on this thread. I've got a line. Eyes down for a full house..

imright - what jobs? There are none. Where do you live? Everything is closing down where I am.

Original poster
Tortington · 05/08/2011 18:30

ema meant that money was coming in for the parents - and that it was tehrefore a legit option - and parents could say - sure you get ema - go to college - i still get some extra cash

or go sign on/get ajob if your lucky and bring in some cash

for families with low or no incomes - it really did legitimise the further education option

OP posts:
TartyDoris · 05/08/2011 19:27

So is it fair to say that EMA only needs to exist because of mass immigration?

I know plenty of people that went onto FE and HE whose parents did not have much money, it really was never an issue.

AwesomePan · 05/08/2011 21:27

TD - in that case you do seem to be way behind the times. When I went to HE, i.e. university, my father had to pay a total of £2,300. I rememeber that, though it was some years ago Blush, because he really couldn't afford it. But he did pay it, God bless him. But it WAS an issue, even then.

Fast fwd to 2011/12, and we have a ridiculous hike in tuition fees (£9,000?) and a MASSIVE rise in renting costs, and it will mean/does mean by dint of incomes that the eligible young people who will be able to go to HE will be reduced, although they will be just as suitable by academic judgement.

TartyDoris · 05/08/2011 22:04

In what way will people not be able to go onto HE? Fees don't have to be paid upfront.

Original poster
Tortington · 06/08/2011 07:36

'i know.....x' is a piss poor counter argument

and on top of tht you have flatly refused to recognise the enormous hike in fees.

in the style of 'i know...'
i went to uni whilst i had three kids under 5 years old. I got student loans and I worked a job.

now my daughter is 18, there is no way she can afford it and i certainly can't

OP posts:
happyinherts · 06/08/2011 08:59

So the argument against poor students getting EMA seems to be based on the criteria that 'I didn't get it when I was a student." How utterly selfish.

Demands on the poor have increased dramatically over the years and therefore it's getting more and more difficult. 6th form colleges now require you to pay for more than schools ever did. I'm not talking about university and fees here, just 6th form and 6th form colleges for which EMA was brought in to help towards costs. Fares in some parts of the country are astronomical for a low income family. I'm sad people see investing in the future as paying students to go to school, and the I'm alright Jack attitude is quite frankly just as bad as the politicians stance on it. People would soon change their view if they lost their jobs and were forced into minimum wage work with teenagers requiring equipment for college, fares, etc....

Solopower · 06/08/2011 11:50

Surely the more young people in FE/HE the better> Otherwise there would be even fewer jobs for everyone else.

And I agree with other posters: If you had it hard, that's a bad thing, surely, and an argument for trying to make it easier, not harder, for other people.

Lifeissweet · 06/08/2011 12:21

I think the point is, Solopower, that it's not so much about getting more young people into FE/HE, but getting the right ones in - which means the brightest ones- not necessarily the ones who have the most resources and who know full well that their families will be able to help them out when they struggle with the debts they will be inevitably saddled with after 2 years at FE college and 3/4 years at University. The young people who will lose out are the bright ones with fewer resources to afford the transport and equipment costs and who's families do not have those aspirations for them. The ones who have been brought up to live within their means and not take on debts they can't afford to repay.

I completely agree that the whole 'well I managed so why can't they' argument is completely erroneous. We are living in an entirely different world from when the majority of us were teenagers/students.

TartyDoris · 06/08/2011 13:50

now my daughter is 18, there is no way she can afford it and i certainly can't
WHAT can't she afford? What is she having to pay for that she can't afford?

I completely agree that the whole 'well I managed so why can't they' argument is completely erroneous. We are living in an entirely different world from when the majority of us were teenagers/students.
Maybe we should look at the causes, why are "we living in an entirely different world"? Why not address the root cause, instead of trying to ease the symptoms?

glasnost · 06/08/2011 13:51

Answer to OP: duhhhhhhh yeah of course this is a war on the poor. Can't believe you people are still debating this on t'internet and aren't out on the streets protesting. Where I live we're starting a revolution on monday @ 18.30. I'm bringing the baby. See you there, suckers.

Original poster
Tortington · 06/08/2011 13:55

the root cause is labour and tory govts - with a sprinkle of that traiterous lib dem cunt shitting all over further education

OP posts:
usualsuspect · 06/08/2011 14:05

Ema encouraged loads of poorer kids into FE

Getting rid of it smacks of we don't want your sort any more