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Original poster

Save the NHS for our children

99 replies

RuthHill · 11/05/2011 22:03

This petition is being given to Nick Clegg on Friday. If you haven't already, please sign it to save the NHS for our children.

www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.38degrees.org.uk%2Fpage%2Fm%2F74c05bf2%2F2d4f1744%2F598e50c7%2F4674cbd1%2F3802366347%2FVEsF%2F&h=2bd84

OP posts:
southeastastra · 12/05/2011 21:53

health should be one service worldwide

hudspur · 12/05/2011 21:54

I don't know whether these reforms will work or not to be honest. Healthcare does suffer at the moment from a lack of competition in the market and although the market for health does not work like most other markets, an injection of competition woulddo some good in both driving down costs and increasing standards which will be crucial as the NHS comes under demographic pressure.

I know little about the NHS so whether Lansleys will succeed in doing this I don't know. That said I certainly don't agree with the Labour Partys view about the brilliance of the status quo and that nothing needs to be done to the NHS.

wubblybubbly · 12/05/2011 21:57

The NHS is one of the best systems in the world for delivering health care regardless of wealth. That's why it's worth preserving.

It also costs a lot less than most other systems. It certainly could be improved, but this bill is totally shit and will cost lives.

wubblybubbly · 12/05/2011 22:01

Cancer experts views on the reforms here

How reassuring for those of us going through this shit. Thanks Mr Lansley, as if I've not got enough to worry about.

Chil1234 · 12/05/2011 22:13

We pay already. The NHS costs well over £2000/year per man, woman and child in the UK. We pay for prescription charges, dental care & eye care on top. They could retain GP and Emergency services, give everyone enough money to pay for a very fancy BUPA/PPP policy, save millions, and I don't think anyone would be too unhappy at the swap, frankly. As for 'financial restraints'.... aren't we already subject to post-code lotteries and budget limitations? Don't the good folk at NICE decide whether we're worth treating with the latest meds or if we're not cost-effective enough to keep alive?

wubblybubbly · 12/05/2011 22:18

You wouldn't get much cover for £2k, particularly if you've got terminal cancer.

wubblybubbly · 12/05/2011 22:22

NICE have to make very tough decisions, but they can be challenged if your specialist takes up your case.

Try pleading with BUPA to fund new drugs when you've reached your claim limit, see how far you get.

hudspur · 12/05/2011 22:23

The type of insurance system used for private health care in this country is nothing like the insurance schemes run in countrys like France so any comparison is pretty meaningless.

Original poster
RuthHill · 12/05/2011 22:23

Do you think the Government are likely to give us back the tax that we pay into the NHS even if they do privatise? Unlikely. We have one of the cheapest systems. We do not have to have medical insurance (be it private or state mandetory). We also have a duty of care - even if you did get £2000 back, if you couldn't afford your rent then where would that £2000 go?

Yes we do already have postcode lotteries, but the current proposals wont solve this, they'll make it worse.

OP posts:
wubblybubbly · 12/05/2011 22:34

The french system costs considerably more than the NHS and the NHS still manages to deliver healthcare services more effectively to those on the lowest incomes.

What's so great about the french system exactly?

hudspur · 12/05/2011 22:37

The French health care system was rated the best healthcare system in the world by WHO. The french system does cost more but they use both private and public capital to fund it.

wubblybubbly · 12/05/2011 22:39

So if we spent the same on the NHS as the french spend perhaps we could achieve the same results? With a few tweaks obviously, but no need for wholesale reform costing billions.

Original poster
RuthHill · 12/05/2011 22:40

If you want higher taxation (be that in the form of mandetory health insurance or common-or-garden taxation) then I'm sure more improvements could be made to the NHS, but unless we're going to sort out the fact that the highest earners do not pay the highest (proportionally) taxes, then I'm not sure many people would be happy with greater taxation...

OP posts:
hudspur · 12/05/2011 22:41

I don't think so, the problems with the NHS are far more deep rooted than a simple matter of funding and we don't have the money to increase spending anyway.

wubblybubbly · 12/05/2011 22:47

Like what hudspur, what are the problems? I'm sick of the sight of my local hospital, but they've been nothing short of amazing when it comes to my treatment.

Things are changing now though. Already 2 oncologists aren't being replaced. Doesn't it just make your heart sing.

The French pay a small fortune for their healthcare, are you suggesting that we can get away with spending the same as we currently do yet get the service the French get? I wonder why they can't do it, since they're the best in the world?

hudspur · 12/05/2011 22:50

The lack of competition will lead to a less efficient allocation of resources

wubblybubbly · 12/05/2011 22:52

People do seem to think the NHS is still the cumbersome plodding system it was years ago, it's not, at least not all of it.

I needed a scan, my hospital were booked up weeks ahead, no problem. My GP got on the phone and the trust arranged to open the CT unit over the weekend to fastrack urgent scans. Scan done 3 days later.

thefirstMrsDeVere · 12/05/2011 22:53

When my DD was dx with cancer the only decision I had to make was what to pack as we were admitted to hospital the next day.
Her treatment started immediately.
It cost hundreds of thousands of pounds.

I was in contact with many parents in the US. They had to choose which drugs their children got according to their insurance. They also had to raise funds to pay for hospital stays when it ran out.

NHS? Fucking brilliant.

smallwhitecat · 12/05/2011 22:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

wubblybubbly · 12/05/2011 22:57

Can you tell me how competition will work? I can't understand it myself.

So I need a CT scan, an MRI, someone to read those scans and report the results, a mastectomy, chemo, radiotherapy.

Are all of these aspects of expertise to be carried out according to cost? Who benefits from that exactly, not the patient surely, who has to traipse from pillar to post to save a few quid.

I can't imagine the patient sitting down and choosing where to have each procedure carried out. When you're sick and vulnerable you just want treatment, you want to know the professionals are on your side, getting you the best treatment as quickly as possible, not quibbling over a few quid here and there.

wikolite · 12/05/2011 22:59

"NHS? Fucking brilliant."

The fact we came 18th in WHOs last comparison by country suggests otherwise.

wubblybubbly · 12/05/2011 23:00

Sorry to hear about your DD MrsDeVere Sad

I think your post is spot on. When you're facing a diagnosis like cancer it takes all your strength just to function. I can't imagine having to make major decisions about finances and treatments.

wubblybubbly · 12/05/2011 23:07

wiko, do you have a link? I've tried googling but can find nowt.

wikolite · 12/05/2011 23:10

wubbly

www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

wubblybubbly · 12/05/2011 23:15

cheers wiko, will check it out tomorrow. My bed has been calling for hours, just too knackered to face the stairs.

Had a quick look and I think I'll need steroids to get through that lot Grin

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