Thread to discuss issues around health and social inequalities

[StealthPolarBear]

I would like to just read more about this, but specifically I'd like a discussion about how these are impacted by politics / social policy

BTW I have put health and social inequalities, iMO they are intertwined and the causes and symptoms are closely related

if you get benefits becuase you are poor you watch your money and things like fruit go at the end of your list.
now i know that all the mumsnetters that post here can weave lentils and do a weeks meal for 15 children on 69p but i did live on a council estate for many years and fruit and veg wasn't the top of anyones diet. Certainly i will admit that when we were at out poorest and buying 5p noodles, fruit was a frivolity.

i never did get why poor people have bad teeth though. the dentist is free, and although the list to get an nhs dentist can be months, it is worth going on.

dh and all his family - who grew up under the thatcher regime - fil unemployed for years - and hes a proud man who had to go job centre daily and go on training courses etc -he did get a job eventually and has worked there for about 15 years - all have bad teeth - like clampit - teeth missing really bad teeth. they all seem mortally scared of the dentist.

Yes, socio-economic status (i.e. richness and education level IMO) is the biggest influence on health inequality. So are you saying benefits don't pay enough of fruit & veg should be subsidised for those on benefits?

dentist isn't free though is it?

i also think the benefit system has a lot to answer for in terms of 'going on the sick' as soon as claiming JSA became a hurdle, everyone was ont he sick, back problems - christ half of oldham had back problems or neck problems.

shit lie - anti depressants - most people i knew were on ADs seriously.

also drinking - culture or drinking until you fall over or get knocked out in a fight. lots of people i knew bought beer nightly - probably to just dull the overwhelming shitness of life.

so then you get alchy, depressed fat toothless poor people signed off on sick with no prospects, qualifications or hope for the future.

i think the answer is all in self esteem and work. but i was made redundant a few months ago and whilt i have now got another job - it was exceedingly hard for me to do so. now i know there are jobs out there - but when you have a well qualified person who usd to work in local government applying for a shelf stacker position against - lets say my eighteen year old son who is unemployed - i know who i'd employ - and i'm his mother!

i haven't been poor for ages - is the dentist not free?

ah well thats why then, toothless poor people are so becuase you have to pay for dentist.

no idea whether it is free to people on benefits
To people who aren't it is expensive (presumably not as expensive as private dental care)

dh is registered with an nhs dentist and theres a maximum they charge for all works - soemthing like £300 ish.

yes...do you not think that's a lot?
Suppose it depends what you need doing
Dodgy dentists look to increase their 'units' too by splittng the work

It's free if you are on benefits but in some areas there is a waiting list to see a dentist.

Cheap booze and cheap junk food are very tempting when that's the only entertainment you can afford. Being skint is depressing people need to escape...

I think the 'poor' argument for ill health sort of falls down when you consider the disproportionate impact of cigarettes and alcohol - both quite expensive pastimes. If money was the sole driver then those on lower incomes logically wouldn't die of smoking-related diseases, for example. But they do, so there are clearly other things going on besides finances which are generating the poor choices that lead to poor health.

You have to look, therefore, at things like education levels, learned behaviour patterns, attitude to risk, peer pressure, traditions. If everyone around you, including your parents, are behaving in a particular way, eating a particular diet, smoking, drinking and have a 'what's the point?' approach to life, it takes a lot to break out of that tradition, even if you have plenty of cash.

BTW... bad teeth and the amount of sugar loaded into mugs of strong tea could be connected.

but level of education level is linked to smoking too, isn't it? So poor people may spend a disproportionate amount of their income on cigarettes and booze.

BTW I don't want to continue a discussion with you if it gets personal. Just saying now so I don't get accused of anything later.

(Personal with whom, sorry?) As ever the difficulty is establishing whether it's a correlation or causality. Does a low level of education mean someone won't understand the dangers of cigarettes and alcohol? Or does the depression caused by the unemployment/low-paid job that the poor education resulted in mean someone's more likely to smoke/drink to cheer themselves up? Or does living in a run-down area mean someone's more likely to be stuck with poor schooling and influenced by the high number of smokers/drinkers in their vicinity?

I just mean I don't want to continue if this thread turns nasty.

" As ever the difficulty is establishing whether it's a correlation or causality. Does a low level of education mean someone won't understand the dangers of cigarettes and alcohol? Or does the depression caused by the unemployment/low-paid job that the poor education resulted in mean someone's more likely to smoke/drink to cheer themselves up? Or does living in a run-down area mean someone's more likely to be stuck with poor schooling and influenced by the high number of smokers/drinkers in their vicinity?"

Yes I agree. Obviously it's not as simple as "low educational attainment = doesn't understand the dangers" as pretty much everyone knows now about the dangers of smoking, and to a lesser extent drinking. But ultimately, it comes down to tackling poverty and poor attainment / inclusion, and that would solve a whiole host of problems.

It's a vicious cycle I think. If you are poor and smoke then you have less to spend on food. So the smoking gets compounded by poor diet.

Education and support to quit smoking would be helpful. You can eat healthily on a low income if you make wise choices and don't waste money on fags. But I guess the psychological effects of being poor can account for some it too, like I said before.

I think chil is onto something about culture. If everyone around you eats a certain way it is hard to be different even if you know better. Onto something about tea and sugar too, I blame fizzy drinks toas well.

A mix of education, support and culture change is needed. How to go about it I don't know...

I've been on a waiting list for 2 years for a nhs dentist. Luckily my teeth haven't needed any work (ever!) but am dreading the moment they do. I had 3 dentists go private on me. Last one kept children on so dd1/2 were ok but now they are going private & dd1 is likely to need braces soon.

You won't pay £300 for the fillings though - think they fall in the middle bracket

I don't accept the premise. It is not desirable to reduce inequality as a political goal.

It is desirable to extend opportunity as a political goal - which may have the reduction of inequality as a side-effect.

Inequality is a very dangerous metric. The last people to start to implement "equal" societies as a matter of course in every aspect of public policy (naturally, with some more equal than the others) were the Communists.

But it's not equality in the same way as communism surely?
It's about your health outcomes not being linked to your socio-economic status? Why should a labourer be more likely to die from a heart attack than a businessman?

DN - sorry for overlooking. I see what you mean now

I think it comes down to hope.

If you have little hope for the future - why care so much about your health? Hedonism is pretty tempting in that situation.