Unemployment

[newwave]

I have read the threads on here tonight and many have stated that those on benefits who can work should work, I have no problem with that at all BUT as the Tory governments policies are destroying tens of thousands of jobs and because of them we have 2.54 million out of work combined with RECORD youth unemployment can I ask those who castigate those on benefits what jobs

2.54 million out of work 424, 000 vacancies, do the math.

LFN - the 2 million unemployed people dont speak french. They stay in this country. They are homeless with no internet, so they dont know the situation elsewhere, not even in the next town. But many of them have degrees, some have 30 years experience in their field.

So, what do people eat for the other 2 meals?
Where do these people live?
What about if their children?

James, once tipped as a possible future leader of Labour, and Frank? Now I know you're having a prank.

Many of the foreign scroungers here seem to have no problem getting by not speaking English.

You have not answere the questions

This one for example

I say again 2.54 million and rising unemployed and 440,00 vacancies please do the math.

As for anyone can find a job if they try that is just not true and you know it see above

And this question

the invisible hand of the market to find the true "fair" price for employment.

What if that price is half the current minimum wage for a non skilled job? Do you think starvation wages are acceptable or will the State need to subsidise these wages with such as:

Tax credits and housing benefits

If the fair price is below the minimum wage then the job will not be created, obviously.

The minimum wage does cause unemployment, but is probably worth it nonetheless.

I wouldn't have tax credits and housing benefit. I would cut income tax and national insurance. It is deeply immoral, and highly inefficient, for the State to take your money just to give it back to you. It should just not take it in the first place.

Can you imagine if Labour had listened to James and Frank? Their prospects would have been in the tank. The public would have deserted them in greater droves than they did under Brown. Even Mrs. Duffy would probably have said enough is enough. Osborne would have been greeted with thunderous applause by the public, who would have felt that this was the last straw, the one to break the camel's back and finally give Labour the sack.

LFN Here is an idea that may appeal to you.

Lets build "work camps" and have the message "work will set you free" above the gates after all it's what the unemployed deserve.

LFN - do the thinking and answer the question.

newwave Yawn. Godwin's law invoked.

Those on minimum wage dont pay tax so they can hardly have it back to pay the rent with.

Do you consider that employers who pay wages so low thet they do not cover basic housing and living needs so that the state has to susidise the employees wages are just another type of state sponger

As of 1st April I am unemployed. I paid 26k in tax and ni in 2010-2011.

Should I be taking a £6 a hour job in mcdonalds? Surely it is better that I receive JSA whilst I look for a suitable job at a decent salary and so in turn pay tax and ni again?

I have 22 years of working left.

Changechangechangeagain Because you have contributed in the past, you would get far more leeway in the future. In particular, you would be entitled to at least 1 year on out-of-work benefits - plenty of time to avoid McJobs.

newwave Yawn. Godwin's law invoked. Yes you are probably right however the views you are expousing tonight are so far to the right of any decent thinking person and anyone with an ounce of empathy that I couldnt resist it although I should have.

I read an article about physcopaths and their lack of empathy (in the Guardian last month) and you views seem to mirror some of the subjects described without the murderous violence of course.

I dont know if you are a Christian (I am not) but I suggest you read the parable of the good Samaritan.

How charming. So I'm not actually a Nazi, merely a psychopath. Lovely.

Well LFN, you really have excelled on this thread. It pisses me off that people are not paid enough on minimum wage to support themselves, but you think it should be lower!

When employees are paid minimum wage and have to be topped up by the state, the state is subsidising the employer not the employee.
Now would be the time to invest in social housing. It would create employment (construction industry) and give people somewhere affordable to live. if they can afford to pay full rent (and this should be a calculated figure based on land, construction and maintenance costs based on the lifetime of the property) then they should. If not the housing benefit payable would be less than is currently paid to 'private' landlords. Win win (except for private landlords of course).

When did I say the minimum wage should be lower?

I said that the minimum wage increases unemployment - which is surely a statement of the obvious? If you can afford to pay someone £2 an hour but not £6 an hour, then there will be no job created.

I said that despite that, the minimum wage is worth it. As Labour implicitly agreed when they created the minimum wage, the resulting unemployment is a price worth paying.

How charming. So I'm not actually a Nazi, merely a psychopath. Lovely.

The lack of empathy and compassion you seem to have towards those damaged by the society does seem the bear the hallmarks of a nasty mind.

I would agree with much of what you say if the economic and social conditions did not make the outcomes of what you want impossible and the fact that you cannot see that the policies of the Tory party are exacerbating the problems you so dislike.

How can you want to punish the unemployed for being unemployed if no fucking jobs are available, to come out with trite comments about "anyone can find a job if they try" in the current climate is patently ridiculous.

I like scroungers anymore than you and I would report anyone I knew that was working and signing on without a moments hesitation BUT I also have major problems with the "snouts in the trough* tax evading, self entitled position of our "leaders" in the work place.

I withdraw the Nazi and comments and apologise for them, you have a way of getting under my skin but that is no excuse for the comments.

"I dont like scroungers" ffs

FGS "and Physcopath comments"

You commented on a fair price possibly being below minimum wage. If you can afford to pay £2 per hour and the minimum wage is £6 per hour can't you see you dont't have a business? FFS

Actually I only get 6 months on JSA. Not much after 23 years of solid working and paying 40 per cent tax for last 15.

Well, exactly. Many small businesses in particular have extremely tight margins. Often they could employ 1 more person at half the minimum wage, but not the minimum wage itself. So the minimum wage increases unemployment.

You have to balance that against the fact that if it worked properly, the minimum wage would save the government (at least in theory, but not in practice) having to invent elaborate benefit schemes like tax credits. There should be no income tax on minimum wage income levels, but no benefits either.

LFN - you are right that the minimum wage is worth it. If people were paid £2/hr, they would not pay tax and would require benefits to survive. But the company owner would keep the profits the workers made, effectively stealing money from the state and his employees.

Please answer the previous question from your suggested policy:
The 2 million unemployed people stay in this country. They are homeless with no internet, so they dont know the situation elsewhere, not even in the next town. But many of them have degrees, some have 30 years experience in their field.

So, what do people eat for the other 2 meals?
Where do these people live?
What about if their children?

HHLimbo I am not overly concerned about what happens benefit scroungers who spend years out of work.

If they have a crap time when benefits run out, then that is their own responsibility, not that of the State.

But if they can't afford to pay minimum wage there is no business.
I am probably more infuriated by money being paid to prop up people with no viable business and landlords raking in housing benefits than I am with the relatively small number of people sitting on their arses watching Jeremy Kyle.