Well done Gov Scott Walker of Wisconsin!

[longfingernails]

Finally, the venal public sector unions have gotten their just deserts, if only in a small corner of the world.

Gov Walker has shown inspired leadership, and is surely a contender for the GOP Presidential nomination.

We could do with someone of his mettle here - often, Cameron is far too consensual for his own good - not because he lacks steel, but he just has too much of the misguided noblesse oblige sense of "fair play".

Anyway, if Gov Walker continues in this vein, he may one day be spoken of in the same breath as Thatcher and Reagan!

I really don't like what this man has done. I think there is a balance to be struck between the aspirations of workers and their rights to fair treatment and representation, and the requirements of organisations (public or private) to be competitive and flexible. Too much power on either side is unhealthy and wrong. Cameron is perfectly right to insist on fair play & consultations because we can only progress as a society with a degree of consent on all sides. Without fairness, all we have is bullying and resentment - a toxic mix that this part of the USA will doubtless rebel against in due course.

Is it good to be spoken of in the same breath as Thatcher and Reagan?

I'd treat it as pretty much a black mark to be honest.

Those who add value - those who are genuinely the best - won't have a problem. The people who rely on unions are the mediocre and the incompetent.

I do believe unions have an important role to play - and that is maintaining safety standards in potentially life-threatening situations.

However, anything to do with salary, job security, pensions and perks should always be individually negotiated. If you're crap at your job, you should be fired, regardless of seniority.

The people who rely on unions are those who, without joining together, would not have any voice at all and would be relegated to the realms of slave labour. I think it's insulting to refer to them as 'mediocre and incompetent'... they are simply working people joining together to achieve what they cannot achieve individually.

There may be a case for limited private sector unions - though I remain unconvinced - government should lay out minimum standards, and anything over and above that should be individually negotiated.

However, when it comes to the public sector, decisions are taken by democratically elected representatives. Public sector unions do nothing but screw over the public, by wasting taxes, destroying productivity, and fostering a suffocating miasma of mediocrity.

If the public want public sector workers to have gold-plated final salary or career average pensions, and all sorts of other unaffordable perks, they will vote for parties who say so. If they don't, then they won't - and to defy the public will in this way through union thuggery and bully-boy tactics is thoroughly undemocratic.

The actions of the 14 Democratic state legislators who ran away instead of doing their democratic duty and voting disgust me.

Elections have consequences. The right, in every civilised country in the world, has always recognised that. Time that the left did the same instead of trying to subvert it.

I don't like this at all, people must have the right to collective bargaining. A consensual approach is more likely to be suceesful than a dictatorial one. I think that many of the union leaders are unreasonable and do make some pretty extortionate demands but the Government must try and work with them to reach a settlement but thast obviously doesn't mean giving into the unions.

They still have the right to try to bargain collectively.

It's just that the State of Wisconsin has made the democratic decision not to listen to them when they do so.

Then that's not bargaining...

Nonsense - no-one should be forced to listen to anyone else, no matter how thuggishly they behave.

On the flip side, of course, everybody should be free to say what they like, unless it endangers others.

Gov Walker's proposals are sensible and measured, and have already saved 1500 public sector jobs.

yeah, right... even you must be able to see that 'screwing over the workers is good for the workers' is illogical.

It's not good for crap workers.

It is downright awful for them - they will get sacked based on performance, rather than having a get-out based on seniority.

Boo hoo.

A lot of people are not 'crap workers', but they are asked to do 'crap jobs' and often for 'crap money'. They're not in the realms of performance appraisals or '360 feedback' or whatever it is you think everyone gets. They need someone to stick up for them or they will sink without trace.

There are some union bosses - Bob Crow springs to mind - that see their raison d'etre as bringing down capitalism rather than simply getting a fair deal for their members, but if you look at one of the best manufacturing countries in the world i.e. Germany, you'll find that workers' councils and a consensual style of management is not only standard but works very well indeed.

OP you are quite evil. I suggest you name change to longclaws or talons.

Chil1234 You might have a point if public sector union membership wasn't largely made up of degree-level educated white collar workers - especially in America.

The people doing genuinely crap jobs (like rubbish collectors) usually work in the private sector - and those public sector workers with genuinely dangerous jobs (the police and firemen) are rightly exempt from the new legislation.

No, the ones who will suffer are the crap teachers, bureaucrats, and lecturers. All of whom should suffer.

And glasnost, it is somehow evil to want to reward the best workers regardless of seniority, to ensure that unions can't frustrate reforms like charter schools, and in general, to promote prosperity? Don't make me laugh.

Without unions who would be able to negotiate overtime pay, health and safety etc.? Without unions we'd be back in the days of employers like Scrooge. It's a quid pro quo, employers have rights, but so do employees. Collective bargaining aims to ensure equal rights for employees. It stops employers cherry-picking and treating workers unfairly.

And people educated to degree level and working in white-collar jobs aren't as deserving of protection in employment? In a large organisation, are you seriously suggesting that a competent, degree-educated worker can't be steam-rollered on pay and conditions, just the same as anyone else? Your argument seems to hinge on some silly 'survival of the fittest' idea.... and whilst incompetent staff should be eased out of an organisation legally, just because someone is not in a powerful enough position or doing a stellar enough job to demand better treatment single-handed, it does not make them a fair target for exploitation.

I am utterly speechless. Is it really a good thing "to be spoken of in the same breath as Thatcher and Reagan"?

..and it's not just the "crap and mediocre" who rely on unions. Anyone in a large organisation does so to ensure their voice is represented.

LFN you are just a nasty piece of work and and yes people who are crap in the private sector get sacked.....eyes up banking sector.

www.truth-out.org/assault-collective-bargaining-illegal-says-international-labor-rights-group68423

Nonsense - no-one should be forced to listen to anyone else, no matter how thuggishly they behave.

another nail in the coffin for true democracy then?

Just curious, lfn, if Wisconsin now decides to put every teacher on minimum wage with no healthcare, would that be a) a good thing, or b) a bad thing?

Bear in mind how the American economy is struggling at the minute, so your 'market' answer, that they should get jobs elsewhere, doesn't apply.

All those over-unionised, over-protected, bankers. is this why they are so mediocre and incompetent? No! They must have bonusses for doing such sterling work, or all that talent will leave the country. you know, like NHS brain surgeons do if we don't give them £3 million a year. Somehow, they manage to scrape by on about £80k. God only knows how...LFN you are trolling beautifully but are terminally bewildered I fear.

DillyDaydreaming Thatcher put the Great back into Great Britain. Reagan showed America that the American Dream was alive and more resonant than ever. They won the Cold War, they defeated the union menace, they made their economies prosperous, they were re-elected with ease (in Thatcher's case, again and again).

TheHeathenOfSuburbia Wisconsin has already saved 1500 public sector jobs thanks to the cuts in public sector worker entitlements. If it's a choice between saving jobs or keeping cushy perks, the like of which are unknown in the private sector, I vote for the jobs every time.

"Thatcher put the Great back into Great Britain. Reagan showed America that the American Dream was alive and more resonant than ever. They won the Cold War, they defeated the union menace, they made their economies prosperous, they were re-elected with ease (in Thatcher's case, again and again)."

Wow... you must have taken even more drugs than I have.

Ordinarily I would try to debate the issues you raise but really, such unutterable tripe deserves nought but insult and ridicule.

Cushy perks... like being paid a fair wage?

I'll assume, given your world view, that you haven't read 'The ragged-trousered philanthropists'?

Back before collective bargaining (or unemployment benefit), you could pay your workers as little as you liked; if they didn't like it, there was some other poor starving bugger who would do the job for the same money - or less.
In fact, people could slave away all hours and still not be able to feed their kids. And if you got ill, it was the workhouse or starvation.

Damn those socialists who came along and changed things, eh? Still, at least Wisconsin's bold enough to take that leap back a century...