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Politics

TUC National Demonstration Against Cuts

867 replies

OrangeBernard · 11/03/2011 19:24

Who's going? I've just booked my train tickets. Its my first protest, any advice or tips? Bit worried about kettling.

OP posts:
smallwhitecat · 01/04/2011 09:57

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smallwhitecat · 01/04/2011 09:59

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wook · 01/04/2011 23:49

Not at all smallwhitecat, only the bona fides of people who make very sweeping statements- and I sympathise with your difficulties- some schools are far better than others in terms of SEN, as are some teachers. The picture is uneven where is shouldn't be, as it also is for FSM students, LAC students, G and T students etc: some schools enable all these groups of students to make big strides forwards and others allow some or all of these kids to fail: not acceptable.
Still can't see, however, how that makes it OK for you to generalise about the whole sector and to dismiss the whole state sector as 'failing'. Nor can I see how 'free schools' are going to make things any better- for anyone's child.

Xenia · 02/04/2011 07:37

The private sector tends to do things much better than the state so if you let people keep m ore of their own money (such as through a flat tax) and reduce the state massively things would be so much better. The Coalition has no plan to do very much of that and all parties are p retty much in the middle these days with no left or right political agenda so it's unlikely to happen. The cuts which all parties in general support will happen and have to happen and then we'll go into an up cycle before the next down one as ever and continue in our merry middle way politically.

Rosebud05 · 02/04/2011 08:59

Really? Most LA's experience of 'outsourcing' to the private sector have been pretty disastrous.

Does anyone remember ITnet?

I'm not going to even go there with 'own money'.

wook · 02/04/2011 14:18

Xenia, go for a ride on a train sometime and think on.

ttosca · 02/04/2011 15:00

ttosca & Niceguy - you should both read this

Response to Hari's article on debt.

ttosca - I'd be particularly interested to see if you can constructively 'engage with the arguments presented' in the article or whether you have your mind set?

===
RE: The Spectator's response to the Hari article:

A number of points:

a) You'll notice, disingenuously, that the graph show debt and debt/GDP ratio from 1975 onwards. Precisely the time when debt declined to the levels of recent decades. If you look at the previous charts:

4.bp.blogspot.com/_Z_3bgQQpLBE/TL_tYYSpP6I/AAAAAAAAAE4/6_NAPKhXUmg/s400/debt-gdp.jpg

That for most of the 20th Century, it has been much, much higher.

b) Yes, meant 'Pay of the deficit rapidly', not 'pay of the debt rapidly'. The Coalition plans to eliminate the deficit completely in four years:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12874631

c) With regards to Peter Hoskin's assertion that the UK's credit rating is under jeopardy:

Here's what Nobel economist Paul Krugman wrote last week in the New York Times: "Like America, Britain is still perceived as solvent by financial markets, giving it room to pursue a strategy of jobs first, deficits later. But the government of Prime Minister David Cameron chose instead to move to immediate, unforced austerity, in the belief that private spending would more than make up for the government's pullback. As I like to put it, the Cameron plan was based on belief that the confidence fairy would make everything all right. But she hasn't: British growth has stalled, and the government has marked up its deficit projections as a result."

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/01/george-osborne-economy-tanking-keynes

===
I will reproduce the whole article shortly. The point is that the slash and burn deficit reduction plan is not only harmful to society - an argument in itself - but harmful to the economy, as they will deflate the economy. Recent economic indicators bear this out:

The great austerity is launched straight into the headwinds of this week's dismal economic news, as average incomes fall for the first time in 30 years. Dixons, a good bellwether, delivered a shock profit warning as sales tumbled 11% in 11 weeks: its CEO warned of the "chilling effect on consumers. We think this is the result of the way people are reacting to government cutbacks." Dixons is cutting capital expenditure by 25% ? not exactly growth. Oddbins goes into administration. Thomas Cook warns of "fragile consumer sentiment". H Samuel and Ernest Jones sales are down: no money for jewellery. Argos, Comet, Mothercare ? on and on the rollcall goes of sudden falls in sales and profits. The CBI reports "even best performing sectors ? grocers and clothing ? have seen volumes continue to fall".

Mortgage defaults jumped "unexpectedly", reports the Bank of England. House sales are down, as is manufacturing again. Small businesses are increasingly defaulting on their secured loans. Surveys tell the same story: GfK NOP's consumer confidence index reports the biggest drop for 20 years. They say: "This month's figures show how badly some form of stimulus is needed ? Next month's figures will reveal whether the budget really did put fuel in the tank of the economy ? or merely poured more cold water on people's personal finances."

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/01/george-osborne-economy-tanking-keynes

ttosca · 02/04/2011 15:04

The private sector tends to do things much better than the state so

What utter nonsense. The private sector can work more efficienty in some areas. In many other areas of public services, private sector involvement has been historically disastrous. Does anyone want to return to privitised fireservices? Does anyone want a private police force? How's the now private network rail system going? What's that you say? - the most expensive train fares in europe? Crowded, unreliable service?

if you let people keep m ore of their own money (such as through a flat tax) and reduce the state massively things would be so much better.

Ideological and vacuous.

RamblingRosa · 02/04/2011 20:10

And where the private sector does appear to "work better" or offer value for money, that tends to translate into shit pay and shit conditions for employees - all in the interests of being competitive.

newwave · 02/04/2011 20:11

The private sector tends to do things much better than the state so

The private sector only wants to take over public sector functions if they can gouge a profit from it.

Serco carries out a lot of functions for the public sector and it's CEO earned received £4 million last year, money far better spent on public services.

RamblingRosa · 02/04/2011 20:13

And the scrapping of the two tier code will just make conditions even worse as services and jobs are moved from public to private sector.

newwave · 02/04/2011 20:21

The message from the scum Tories is "were privatising your job and by the way you will receive less pay, less holidays worse terms and conditions and no pension, still the bosses of your new company will make more profit so thats ok then".

Xenia · 03/04/2011 12:05

Labour would have had massive cuts too as the money isn't there any more.

The private sector do things better on the whole so the less of the state there is the better.

("fewer" not "less" holidays, as it's plural)

So for those who are glad the increase in the debt might be stopped a little
Rally against debt

rallyagainstdebt.org/

claig · 03/04/2011 12:15

Rally against debt.
Is that the rally for turkeys to vote for Christmas?
Is that rally to ask for more cuts please?

ttosca · 03/04/2011 13:27

Xenia-

You look a bit autistic when you just keep repeating the same things and no listening to what anyone is saying.

Rosebud05 · 03/04/2011 16:32

I do wish that such concerns about the 'immorality' of what is being passed onto future generations extended to nuclear power and poverty.

Rosebud05 · 03/04/2011 16:32

Referring to the link above btw.

wook · 03/04/2011 17:35

So true Rosebud. Nuclear power, profit before the environment, poverty, and the attitude that your neighbour is not your brother/sister. All crap things for the next generation. And unethical foreign policy which kind of encapsulates all the above anyway.
Hate the 'morality' of rolling back the state- so disinegnuous.

wook · 03/04/2011 18:26

disingenuous!

smallwhitecat · 03/04/2011 21:50

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Rosebud05 · 03/04/2011 22:15

I agree that you could have got your point across in a much less provocative and distasteful way, ttosca.

Xenia · 04/04/2011 10:04

The private sector does do most things better than the state. It's pretty obvious why. If people directly pay they expect a better service (compare state and private schools and hospitals). Where there is competition there are better services. I don't want to disband the NHS and nor does the Coalition.

Rosebud05 · 04/04/2011 14:05

Most privatisation of public services eg rail, refuse collecting, benefit processing has resulted in a less efficient service, poorer pay and conditions for workers.

Competition doesn't result in 'better services' - it usually results in cheapest tender getting the contract, regardless of how shite their service and provision is.

How is it 'better' to have the world's largest arms manufacturer paying crap wages to unsupported temporary staff to process the census data?

I wouldn't agree that private hospitals are 'better' - they may have shorter waiting lists and swanky facilities, but there aren't any emergency departments. If an operation goes wrong, people are blue-lighted to the nearest NHS emergency dept.

claig · 04/04/2011 14:16

well said Rosebud05.

RamblingRosa · 04/04/2011 14:17

The more I hear it, the more "The Coalition" starts to sound like something quite sinister - almost out of 1984 or something.

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