TUC National Demonstration Against Cuts

[OrangeBernard]

Who's going? I've just booked my train tickets. Its my first protest, any advice or tips? Bit worried about kettling.

and? your point is?

by the way i know of none of the examples you quoted above.

i do know lots and lots of people who demonstrated yesterday, who are full of empathy and kindness though.

studyinghard... yes it is possible that you know some of those comprising the 0.5% of claimants that are fraudulent - a much lower rate than other benefits... but do you know of the 40% that are entitled to DLA and don't claim?

wow - busy thread.

happiestblonde - you still there? still happy?

I asked whether you agreed with a personal allowance and you said yes - £10k. I was going to then try to have a rational conversation about how it is clearly much more logical, if the concept of a personal allowance seems fair to you, to then introduce tax a bit at a time rather than in one sudden step. i.e having bands of tax rather than a flat rate.

But seeing later posts I don't think it is worth it.

studyinghard,

Regarding chilminders and tax paying, they should declare it however with the example of Gideons and Daves theft offshore trusts and Greens greed tax avoidance, and the stealing cunts bankers greed I suspect they are following our leaders examples.

studyinghard,

Regarding chilminders and tax paying, they should declare it however with the example of Gideons and Daves theft offshore trusts and Greens greed tax avoidance, and the stealing cunts bankers greed I suspect they are following our leaders examples.

studying cuts may well need to happen: (there are debates about the extent of the cuts that should be made amongst economists) I am certain there are some sensible cuts that could be made and personally would like to see an end to Trident etc, not to mention the lunacy of academies, free schools etc (two of our local academys' wages bill are a public scandal IMO)

However, there are political choices about cuts to be made in the current situation - what to cut, how soon to cut, how much to cut.. cutting jobs, cutting support to those with disabilities, just two of the political choices being made.

@newwave - but Green's tax avoidance is legal. The Childminders tax evasion - by non-declaration isn't. Huge difference.

studying there's a huge difference in their personal wealth and the amount of tax being evaded/avoided. But not a huge difference morally.

A profile of a Harvard economics lecturer I think he was today was suggesting £24k to £30k tax free and then one flat tax over that level. The would take most people (as the average wage is £20k or £25k) out of the tax net entirely and we could abolish tax credits to everyone too and all those sorts of complications and go for simplicity.

However Lord Lawson doesn't even think merging NI and tax is a runner and he looked into it very very carefully 20 years ago.

They never seem to manage much simplication although his move to two tax rates only with highest rate down to 40% was a huge success.

So there are some benefit claimants who fiddle, just as there are some MPs who fiddle. Doesn't mean we should abolish benefits.

if we got rid of all the pretentious wankers we would be okay as a country

too many people with no talent

@wook Yes, yes, choices. The parties have choices. And they'd all do pretty much the same thing. And people would still be pssed with them. And life would go on. Politicians would make more choices, a different set of people would get pssed with them, and life would go on. Cynical? Me?

@glitter why aren't they claiming? Do they not need the money - I would have thought they would. And if they do, why not claim? Stigma? And how do you know it's only 0.5% fraudulent? That means someone has done an assessment of who's claiming when they shouldn't be - point me to that. But, always good to know that there are other areas of benefit fraud that needs addressing. Totally agree with enforcement of our current legislation. That's everything from benefit fraud to tax evasion to speeding. Have I mentioned my

"Save police jobs. Get more speed cameras"

slogan? Like I said, enforcement of the law as it stands.

but what would become of the Labour party?

@newwave - but Green's tax avoidance is legal. The Childminders tax evasion - by non-declaration isn't. Huge difference.

The only difference in the is the amount of money involved and the fact that the rich can afford the accountants and lawyers to devise way of avoiding tax. Also bear in mind the likes of greedy bastard Green have the clout with the establishment to have tax laws that favour the rich.

Good luck to the childminders.

What percentage of police are traffic police? How would a speed camera chase a reckless joyrider? How would speed cameras arrest a burglar?

@wook who's saying abolish benefits? Keep benefits for those who actually need them. But keep those that are supposed to offer a temporary safety net when, for example, you are made redundant at a low level to discourage staying on benefits. And the same for anyone who is out of work (non-DLA) to encourage them to get off the safety-net as well.

Unfortunately I am not privy to the thoughts of those who do not claim so I can't answer that one. I could surmise that the application process is too tough or too daunting for some (David Cameron has said it is incredibly daunting) and perhaps due to some being turned down at first application and not appealing (and we're talking amputees here).

Am just looking for stats re fraud rate... I have it here somewhere. I do think though that whilst Disability Living Allowance requires reform, it is being gone about in completely the wrong way.

@newwave well done for advocating criminal activity. Go and put through some windows of people's houses who actually get there arse out of bed to earn a living and pay the correct amount of tax as dictated by law.

studying, are you "on benefits"? Have you tried to live on benefits alone? Or are you a constable?

Whilst I am looking for that though I do find it telling that the initial benefits cap was exempted from DLA claimants.... and now they're trying to lower the number of DLA claimants... but anyway on with looking for those stats.

@claig the speed camera wouldn't catch the joyrider. But it would pay for the police to catch the f**ker or for the police to investigate and catch the burglar.

@LegoStuckinMyhoover 'allo, 'allo, 'allo. What do we 'ave 'ere then? Banged to rights. No, I'm not in the police - what's wrong with thinking laws should be abided by? Nope, never had to live on benefits. I've been lucky. When I was out of work, I didn't think about claiming, I was 100% on trying to find more work. Had I been out of work longer, then I might have applied for JSA, but I wouldn't expect that to fund me any more than the absolute basics. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying that the current rate of benefits is right or wrong - I'm not in the position to be able to say that - and I'm sure it's different for different people with different circumstances, but I do think we should pay no more than the basics to get by - no luxuries. Incentivise people back into work.

ooh whilst looking for that 0.5% stat I found this which shows that actually numbers claiming DLA has remained static for 13 years.... I don't think disability benefits are the ones to trim tbh ouch messageboards

Don't get me wrong, I believe that people should get what they "need" from the state.

studying I don't think I said anything about benefits did I? But since we're on it, I think there is a problem with a) there being so few jobs in many areas b) too many jobs with very low pay, meaning the state basically tops up and provides what the employer should, thereby subsidising both low pay and buy to let property owners. Also c) people claim benefits for different reasons, and quite how being sacked, having a disability or disabled dependents, etc equates to moral weakness or a lazy attitude I don't know. These things (ab and c) mean that randomly going on about people 'on benefits' is unhelpful and ill informed.