If the mega-rich who caused this crisis paid the same level of tax as you and me, we wouldn't have a deficit.

[TapselteerieO]

U.K Uncut

An interesting article?

TheCoalition: both long-scale and short-scale are in use in UK: I was taught long-scale at school in the 1970s; Eurooe, notably France is always long-scale. The US is however different in using invariable short-scale. The wiki page you cite also says this.

I think it would be helpful to abandon the measures which can be long or short (see also the difference between a milliard and a billion), and state e number of thousands of million.

But either way, it's a side-show to the issue, which is that the heavy overspending and level of national debt which pre-existed (and was a major factor in) the credit crunch. And that unpopular as the current plans for cuts might be, they haven't even stopped the overspending, let alone begun to tackle the actual debt.

And no one else has put a costed alternative to the current half-measures, let alone any plans for how to actually stop overspending, rather than just halve it.

Meditrina - in politics and finance in the UK a trillion is a thousand million. We should stick to SI units really.

OK, didnt realise we had different scales. Either way its a LOT of money, to the point its just some random number nowadays.

And we're crying because we don't want to cut a few million off this or that whilst avoiding the fact we owe trillions.

Yes, we should stick to unambiguous units.

I thought a billion was a thousand million and a trillion was a thousand billion? And that it used to be that a billion was a million million.

actually the investment that we the taxpayer made in the banks by bailing them out is actually worth a lot more now. It has ended up being a very profitable action. when we sell our shares we will have a big surplus to put towards the deficit

In fact, I'm 100% certain that a trillion has NEVER been a mere thousand million.

how is it the 'mega rich' that have caused the problem? what about people living over their means and taking out 130% loans for houses that they can write off when they can't pay it anymore?

totally agree though that RBS should have been let collapse.

Rabbitstew - you are right, I put million instead of billion in my post :\

Of course it suits tories to blame everything on the previous government, and their constant recitation of the mantra that Labour caused the deficit has made people start to believe it.

But it only takes a very tiny bit of intelligence to see that this was a global crisis and the USA under a far right government and every other country had the same experience.

A huge bubble was blown over a number of years by these investment bankers and all governments faced the triple whammy of a sudden devaluation of assets; a sudden loss of tax income and having to bail out the very institutions that caused the problem.

The fact is that the cleverer (or luckier) of these people actually made enormous profits out of the bubble bursting. And the very same institutions whose poor practises caused the problems are not even paying their share of tax.

We should all be very upset about it.

UK would have been much better able to withstand external shocks had it not been so heavily overdrawn in the first place. The overspending which began in 2000 is very, very relevant as it was such a major factor in inflating the bubble.

This is the overspending which was supported by all three political parties until relatively recently, meditrina
Can't believe how many have fallen for the Tory bullshit on the deficit! They really have dcone some good brainwashing- I guess if you repeat something for long enough then everyone really will believe it.
And back to purits, I simnply don't understand this contempt for public servants working in vital areas, eg education, health, local government. This public = bad, private= good, public = lazy and ineffectual, private = efficient, hardworking and go getting divide is just patent bollocks and so oversimplistic it makes 'Where's Spot?' look like intellectual genius. What on earth is your point?

Wook: have a look at this graph from the Guardian. It shows that with the exception of two years (88 and 89), The deficit shrank under the Conservatives. With the exception of one year (1997 - election year, so about 6 months each party), the deficit grew under Labour.

Labour did cause the deficit. Gordon Brown inherited an economy which generated a net surplus in 1997. The last time he produced a budget in which tax revenues exceeded government expenditure was either 2002 or 2004, I can't remember which and you can google it yourself.

The fact that America, Germany and other Western nations also had governments addicted to excessive public spending programmes does not make the fiscal incompetence of the last government any the less reprehensible.

And I am no friend of the banks either. I would gladly have seen the likes of Natwest go to the wall, carpetbagging little turds. I don't think they should have been bailed out. But to say that the banking crisis caused our national debt or deficit is simply untrue. They didn't help but the numbers have been set out for you above.

It was 2002 Georgimama. From 2003 onwards, the economy was booming but Gordon Brown still felt the need to borrow and borrow and borrow, instead of paying down our debt in preparation for the bust.

Why? His utter conceit led him to believe he had conquered the economic cycle - he actually had the temerity to think that he had abolished boom and bust.

Indeed, but never mind because when it all went wrong he "saved the world". He said so, it must be true.

and gordon brown was the one lecturing the german government on how their markets and the regulations were too strict

well, maybe he ought to have held the reigns a bit tighter in his own country.

he was treasurer and looked after the FSA which we all know is a bunch of twats in pinstripes, happy to charge fees but look the other way when real misbehaviour is going on, the pompous arseholes.

yes, he saved the world by making us all pay for his stupidity... taxes, cuts, etc.

I do know the deficit and the overspend are the same thing. I was posting rapidly from a soft play centre!

Bear in mind the overspend has been spent on stuff that we actually got something out of. The money spent on the banks has gone down the drain. Or into rich peoples pockets.

And I didn't say the banks caused the deficit either.

"the overspend has been spent on stuff that we actually got something out of"

Not necessarily. Gordon Brown himself announced that he would be adhering to the Rule' ie. borrowing only to invest for the future rather than to pay for current spending. He never kept that promise and Darling ditched it officially in the 2009 budget.

Whilst some of the borrowing has gone on capital investment projects, quite a lot of it - as we see now - went on things public sector pay & recruitment, and handing out tax credits, often to the wealthy. Meaning that reducing the overspend results (among other things) not only in the cancellation of a few capital projects but also in reducing the number of public servants and dispensing with benefits for the wealthy.

Bear in mind the overspend has been spent on stuff that we actually got something out of.

Spending's always the easy part though isn't it? I too could go out, take out some huge loans and blow the lot of Playstation games and holidays. I'd get something out of that too but it doesn't mean I was right to do it.

Of course it suits tories to blame everything on the previous government,...
Yep and New Labour blamed everything on the Tories. That's the usual way of politics and nothing has changed.

But it is undeniable that whilst the national debt has built up over the last thirty years, that Labour inherited a balanced budget. And whilst they stuck to the Tory spending plans, everything was fine. Therefore I do think its only fair that el Gordo takes the blame for managing to clock up a deficit on £160 billion per year within a decade.

The mega rich caused this crisis? Where on earth do you get your information from It was the labour party who caused this crisis. and the banks.

Tax the rich. please, if we've heard it once we have heard it 100 times before on here!

Actually, on the economy, New Labour didn't blame the Tories - there wasn't any blame to be apportioned at that stage. In fact, to make themselves electable, they undertook to follow Tory spending plans for the first 3 years of their administration. It's a pity they departed from them.

Actually, on the economy, New Labour didn't blame the Tories - there wasn't any blame to be apportioned at that stage. In fact, to make themselves electable, they undertook to follow Tory spending plans for the first 3 years of their administration. It's a pity they departed from them.

Yes, the banks caused the crisis.The banks are run by and for the mega rich. You can't divorce them. Labour contributed to the crisis by deregulating. But if I sell the bullets and you pull the trigger, you're the murderer aren't you?