THE NATIONAL INSURANCE "SURPLUS" CAN AFFORD TO PAY A DECENT STATE PENSION RE- LINKIED TO NATIONAL AVERAGE WAGES.

[ivanhoe]

The National Insurance (NI) system, provides an efficient way of guaranteeing that both employees and employers
fund the pensions of today's retirees, with an annual cost of delivering the basic State pension to each individual of just £5.40 compared to that of the means-tested
Pension Credit of £53.70 (28).

In addition, the Government Actuary has predicted that the fund will have a N.I. surplus by March 2011 of £40 billion. Therefore the NI system must continue.

www.britishpensions.org.au/NPC_briefing_paper.htm

You might want to read the whole of it Ivanhoe.

It cannot be more irritating that using digusting language to make your point.

I think the trouble today is that people dont see the shxt they are standing in, because they have gotten so used to it.

""magicbutterfly Wed 09-Feb-11 22:25:36
www.britishpensions.org.au/NPC_briefing_pap er.htm

You might want to read the whole of it Ivanhoe.""

magicbutterfly, I would if I got the right link.

ivanhoe - if you remove the gap in 'paper' you will be able to access it.

""Can you confirm the figures you quote cover all those? And a link?""

No sorry I cant, Government secrecy and all that rot.

So how do you have the info then, as I bet you don't have a security clearance?

Just answer the question about where you get the figures from and how you arrive at them, or otherwise we'll all know that you are full of hot air.

magicbutterfly, I have now not only read the whol of it, I already have the whole of it.

Please read this, copied and pasted

""with the annual cost of delivering the pension just £5.40 compared to that of the means-tested Pension Credit of £53.70"

Sometimes Ivanhoe I do wonder if you really are so naive or you post your ramblings on purpose just to troll. I suspect the latter as I simply cannot imagine there is someone genuinely as stupid as your posts imply.

What you are saying is pretty much "Look it costs only £5.40 to pay people a pension versus £53.70 to means test the pension credit, ergo there is no problem."

That would be like saying "It costs me 41p to post you £2000 cash in an envelope, ergo there is no problem." Well aside from the fact I might not earn £2000 I guess there isn't.

This is the key sentence I can see in that article which is neatly skipped over:

National Insurance benefits, on the other hand, including pensions, are seen by the Treasury as simply part of the total of public expenditure; and it is the total that matters, not whether the money comes from contributions, income tax or some other source.

That's because its TRUE! Let me give you another analogy. Say I earn £2000 a month from my main job and £200 working part time. Now let's say I am spending £3000 per month. Am I....

a) screwed and either need to cut expenditure or earn more?
b) Decide that since I can get a 50" plasma TV from Dixons for £50 per month that I can pay for it out of the £200 I earn and therefore there really is no problem at all.

"""What you are saying is pretty much "Look it costs only £5.40 to pay people a pension versus £53.70 to means test the pension credit, ergo there is no problem.""""

ergo to you too matey.

The point is that it would be cheaper to restore the state pension link to national average wages, other than means test pensioners at extra cost to the tax payer, ergo.

Again you are not looking at the TOTAL cost.

Of course its cheaper per person to give everyone money than to test people to see if they meet the criteria. So that much is not in question. I'm not even going to bother to do the maths.

But the fact you miss is that only a percentage of pensioners will claim the credits versus restoring the link which will affect all pensioners, regardless of overall income.

I note with interest that the previous article was on a website for British pensioners whom live in Australia. Ie. the very group of people who have the most to gain from the restoration of the link but nothing to lose.

other thing i'm really curious about is why does it cost 54 to means test someone? i can't imagine when a bank credit checks anyone it costs anything like this amount. thats a whole day's labour.

dreamingofsun, Its the whole beaurocratic system behind the means testing of pensioners, this is whe the excessive costs come into play.

Ivanhoe. I would rather discuss the present, and the Labour party are no different to any other party as to how they treat the elderly.
I agree yes that New Labour were born in 1997, but I can't comment on any issues relating, to previous eras as I was not born, and even If I was, I was to young to be interested in politics. Thank God!

comp, I can comment on issues relating and ive told you this also.

In 1974, the then Labour Government introduced the National Insurance / Social Security Act, that linked State pensions to inflation or earnings whichever the higher.

This move was to protect the value of the State pension without means testing.

This policy was broken by Thatcher in 1980.

Yes and not restored by Labour Goverments.

The original post was saying that the NI surplus can pay a decent state pension even when relined to average wages.

That plainly is not true.

Who introduced the link, who broke it and who didn't restore it is rather inconsequential isn't it?

In short, if we cannot afford it, does it really matter who stopped it first?

""In short, if we cannot afford it"".

Utter bull.

We can afford what we want to afford. Period.

ivanhoe - i can see that its the beaurocratic process, i'm no thick.... i can't see how they can justify that amount of money to assess someone. would be interested to see what it involves that takes a whole day to do

I dont know how long it takes to do, but the bottom line is that the right wing in politics have never believed in the role of the state,including a state pension, the excessively costing means test system is not a bother to the right wing.

A decent pension has never been about cost, it is about edioligy.

'We can afford what we want to afford. Period.'

And what we don't want to afford, because it is already the largest percentage of the welfare budget, is more pension for boomers like you.

"We can afford what we want to afford. Period."

Classic!

I work hard, I truly believe I deserve a Ferrari. I honestly want to be able to afford one, therefore using your logic I must be able to afford it. I'm going to nip down to my local Ferrari dealer and try that line on him.

"""We can afford what we want to afford. Period."

Classic!

I work hard, I truly believe I deserve a Ferrari. I honestly want to be able to afford one, therefore using your logic I must be able to afford it. I'm going to nip down to my local Ferrari dealer and try that line on him.""

Classic is one thing you aint.

Im not talking about you, im talking bout the welfare of our elderly people, most of whom have paid into the system all their working lives.

Ivanhoe, how far off are you from receiving a state pension. Have you made any provision for your retirement ? Do you believe you have paid enough in NI contributions to pay for all the things you will require during a long retirement ?

Is this groundhog day? Haven't I read about pensions and Thatcher for the last three months? Will I wake from my nightmare?

Claig. What are doing on MN on this nice sunny day? I don't know about you but I'm off out! Cheers!

By the look of the posts it's only me and you on MN anyway!

Good point. I'm out too. Cheers