Absence and Late Forms in Primary Schools

[Kate6490]

The governments policy on fining parents for unauthorised absence from schools drives me bonkers and I have settled on a policy of direct action in protest. I hope others follow. Firstly, why is it necessary for a parent to have to 'beg permission' for authorised absence when they want only to act in the best interests of their child. I have three children, the older two are educated privately, the youngest is at a village state primary. I have never had to 'ask permission' for absence from the private school, and of course if I felt it necessary to remove them from school for a day because I judged it to be in their best interest, the school would never dream of trying to say 'no' or fining me, but if I do the same with my youngest, I've been told I am likely to be refused authorised absence (without giving rhyme and reason which is then judged by goodness knows who) and either authorised absence is awarded or it is not, in which case if I still remove them, then it is 'unauthorised' and makes me subject to fine at the Headmaster's discretion. (£50 per parent, per child). This is ludicrous. I am the parent and the highest authority where my child's well being is concerned. If I think it is in my child's best interest to attend a religious ceremony, an important family event, a hard to get orthodontal appointment, or to take up the chance of joining Mum or Dad on a 2 day business trip to Paris of somewhere as an exceptional, once in a child's lifetime chance to have 1 on 1 abroad with a parent, then that is my call and I do not expect my reasons to be judged by someone completely outside the family. Consequently, what I do now therefore is simply 'not comply' with any absence form - and I don't even send in a courtesy note to say where my child is or when they will be back (as I would have done prevously). I simply text 'sick' to the school office. Sad but true - well done governnment policy - another complete breakdown of the parent/school trust and communcation agenda. If the government wants to reduce habitual absence then it should go after the serial offenders, not penalise the whole population.

Joanofargos. Why do you have to resort to such horrible language? Everybody has a right to post, you should not put people of posting here, with your offence comments.

If you don't agree with Kate6490. Do it in civil way or don't post. It makes you sound very common, which is probably what you are!

Kate6490. It sounds as if you are utterly fed up with the school, how much longer has your child got to go there? If I were you, i would just give the letter if absent, rather than rocking the boat.

As they say 'you can't gather honey by kicking over the beehive' and at present the school is your child's beehive.

Have you spoke to your DH, family or freinds?
What do they say? If your child's not got much longer at the school, it's no point in getting yourself upset about it. Look at it this way at least you can send your children to a private school. Think of all the poor buggers who can't!

I think what people are finding so difficult Kate, is that what comes through your posts is a frantic desire for the rules to apply to everyone except you. I don't think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that you're arguing that there should be no compulsory attendance in schools and that parents should be free to send their children, or not send them, as the mood takes them that day - or indeed to send them in part-way through the day if that suits them better?

But you do seem to be arguing that the rules are there for everyone else but not for you and your DD because she's bright, when you take her out of school it's to do something you consider enriching, and when you're late, the school should automatically know that you've been held up in traffic and it wasn't just that you couldn't be arsed.

It sounds to me that you would probably be better suited to the private sector, where the relationship is different and to an extent, you are the customer and the school will treat you as such. Personally I would find that an odd relationship to have with my child's school, but it sounds like it would suit you much better.

Hi all, new day!

There have been some great posts overnight, sensible and discussive posts and encouraging to read. Everyone deserves to be heard and has a right to an opinion and I respect that. I don't expect or require others to agree with me. My views are my own, but nonetheless, as I said in my initial post, this system drives me bonkers, and I was wondering how others feel.

Obviously, there are many out there who support and applaud the system, and that's fair enough and learning for me, but it is not one I can work with (and I know that many others at my school gate find it infuriating too), hence for as long as my child is stuck in the system, and it wasn't like this when we joined it, I shall work in and around it as best I can. Then I shall leave it. That time is coming soon but it is not here quite yet. As I've said before, thank goodness we live in a democracy where there is free choice and whilst there are many things that could change for the better at the school at the moment, in most part it is a lovely place, beautifully situated with lovely supportive families and concerned parents. It's just going through a bit of a bad patch at the moment and needs a little parent power to help the management address some of the issues where they can, and a recognistion of the failings of government policy where their hands are tied.

However, in the earlier posts there have been reference to a couple of my points which perhaps have been miscontrued.

Please bear with me - I'll try and be more clear.

Firstly, I do not believe it should be one rule for me, one for everyone else I just think the rules should be fair and transparent for all and a 'new rule book' should not be imposed on a 'captive parental audience' without some form of consultation. The case I am fighting is essential, in my view, for everyone's benefit, but if it is not what others want, then I am perfectly content to fight on alone. If that means, despite my attempts to write to the Council, The Board of Governors and the Headmaster about it, and still I'm trapped by a form I refuse to put my signnature to, then I am left no alternative than to 'work the system' as best I can so that it is tolerable for me. If that means using 'sickness' as my excuse for the very occasional absences I need, then so be it. My child has a pretty much 100% attendence record anyway, and a couple of days 'sickness' will not harm her or anyone else.

I personally am amazed that so many are so content to give up their parental rights so easily and accept a system that has been imposed and compels you to submit a request in writing for permission for any absence whilst at the same dispensing a little homily on the irresponsible nature of withdrawing your children from school and the fines that will be liable if, on an undisclosed criteria of judgement, you are deemed to be subject to them.

The whole thing is subject to arbitrary decision making and so opaque that it is rife with opportunity to cause dispute and argument. Why is it that one parent's need for absence is deemed acceptable when another's is not? Who is to say that an 80th birthday party in Scotlannd is less or more authorised than a trip to see Santa in Lapland? Where do religious festivals start and stop? Would you refuse permission for a Humanist gathering but ok it for a trip to Lourdes????? This sort of thing just begs arguement and breaks down the relationship of trust between parent and school. I am a Mum and have my children's best interests at heart, just like the majority of Mums. I participate in every passing cake bake and sponsored event and have done for six long years at this school and so have most of my friends at the school gate too.

There are many of us who are infuriated by this stupid form, and a lot of other stuff at the school too, but that doesn't mean we want to bring the school to its knees. We want to be heard, to be included in the consultation process and to effect a change for good. Councils just don't listen to parents anymore because they think they know best and that parents should be coralled by officialdom, forms and policies and processes until they are compliant. It infuriates me. It is a tough job being a parent .. every parent knows that and most try very hard indeed. They deserve to be listened to and not continually undermined with their authority being slowly eroded away. I am fed up with being treated like a naughty school child myself. Hence - 'no' on principle I don't give written explanations for one instance in 500 drop-offs of 10 minutes lateness. I expect more respect than to be asked that. Class registers show chronic latenness and absence effectively enough. If it is a problem with one particular child, then someone within the school or from the council should have the courage to address and if necessary support that particular parent's need on an individual basis. Don't start off with the assumption that we are all lazy, negligent, over challenged or unable to sustain regular, punctual attendence and need a lecture on the inadvisability of chronic absence if/whenever we ask for a day off here or there or once in a blue moon find ourselves runnning 10 minutes late. What would happen if I insisted that any colleague at a work meeting that was running 10 minutes late gave a written explanation for their lack of punctuality? If I did that to a colleague then I would not be surprised if they were upset by it, affronted and it did serious damage to our relationship of mutual trust and respect.

I said my child is 'bright enough' not to be damaged by a day's absence (I did not say she was exceptionally bright, as some seem to have chosen to infer). She is no more or less capable than the other lovely kids in her class, non of whom would suffer unduly from a day of absence if required.

Finally, private education is an option for me, but that is a lifestyle choice, not 'good luck'. It does not come without sacrifice and I have worked nearly everyday of my motherhood in order to be able to afford it. The ONLY time I have taken off was the two weeks 'drop down' time I had on the maternity wing and after to give birth. Other than that I have relied on late night working, cutting back on 'me time' and rigid efficiency to be able to run a business from home whilst also raising three children (and being there every night and on almost every school run). Others chose to be stay at home Mums and put their careers on hold or in storage in their children's early years. Fair dos - that's a choice too, but one that I personally couldn't afford, so please don't carp and criticise and assume I pay school fees out of some convenient 'trust fund' just because I've chosen the private sector for secondary education because I believe it is the best way to give my children the start I believe will be in their best intersts.

Well my children are educated privately and we do have to request permission for them to have time off.

In the case of dd's dance and drama exams I write stating that she will be absent on x date but for anything elser including performances I have to ask permission.

Hi Complimentary and Bramshott

Yep, have spoken to DH and he usually leaves these things up to me. I tend to run the child centric end of family life and he knows I only ever do what I think is in their best interests. As I said before friends at the school gate are as infuriated as I am, but there are quite a few other issues going on as well, and we are all sort of focussing on various different areas.

Each person has a differnt approach to the absence form, I don't sign or complete the forms, someone else takes unauthorised absence, some lie about what the absence is for or spend a long time 'persauding' the headmaster of the urgency of their need. I have yet to hear of anyone that changed their plans, either by not asking for the absence or because their request for authorised absence was refused. Many just carp and moan about it - a lot! No one at our school has actually been fined yet but it can only be a matter of time.

It's just one more thorn in the side of school/parent relationships.

In terms of my child's 'beehive' yep, fair comment and I liked the saying too - haven't heard that one before, but I really don't think my 7 year old is aware of my ongoing communications with the council, governors, school office or form filling. All she knows is that her Mum tries always to do only what is best for her, knows what is best and is unlikely to be shaken or intimidated by school administrators etc. She's been at the school and its pre-school since she was 3 and she's well primed that a move is afoot and is quite looking forward to it. It's the right time, she's half way through primary and a change of environment and a new friendship group will do her good. She can't wait to get to her older sisters' school either for secondary education, or go weekly boarding either, as both the older ones have done once they reach 14.

Dear elphabadefiesgravity

yes, my experience of the private sector too is that, of course, if you need to absent your child for a day or so, you do of course write to the House Mistress or Master or whoever to say, ... please excuse XYZ from games this afternoon, she is XXXXXX', but that is a courteous, adult exchange and I have NEVER had my judgement of the necessity for absence etc questioned, far less refused. The difference in the state sector is that right at the point you even approach to raise the issue you are issued with a form that i) gives you a little homily on why it is irresponsible to absent your child ii) what the consequences of unuthorised absence will be (a £50 fine per parent per child) and then a space for you to 'apply to the headmaster for permission for authorised absence and a leaflet giving further details about how and when transgressions are to be punished by fines ... and all this could be because you need to take the child out of school for the day to have an orthodontal appointment. It is complete overkill in my view - bureacracy gone mad. You then complete the forms, submit them, and wait .. sometimes up to 2 weeks, before they come back with either a box ticked 'authorised' or 'unauthorised'. In my view it is just not acceptable.

We are reguarly sent reminders that the school does not approve of absence for holidays.

And persistant latecomers are dealt with too. If a child is late you have to fill in the late book with a reason and the child has to take a late slip into class.

The school has to record these things in the same way as state schools.

We don't - but then absence is not a problem at my older children's (private) school and anyway, I don't take secondary school aged children out of school anyway for holidays, there is far too much work on, their days are focussed and they have opportunities in plenty to go abroad with the school or on sporting events or whatever else it takes to add cultural stimulation to the curriculum. However I do feel that in primary years, on rare, special occasions, if the opportunity presents itself, then a cultural trip to London or Paris with Mum or Dad on the back of a busienss meeting or something like that, for a day or two (no longer) would actually be in their best interests. I don't see why that needs to be begged for with dire warning attached of fines and sanctions. It is in the child's interests

Kate6490. Don't be worried about calling your children bright, I do it all the time, "they are more attractive, brighter" and anything else I can think of! Who cares! It depends how you say it!

Kate6490.
The quote I used (about kicking over the beehive) was from Dale Carnegies book
'How to wind freinds and influence people'.

I used to be very much a person who told people exactly what I thought. IMO it doesn't work, much better I find the 'iron fist in the velvet glove'. Another great book is '48 laws of power' by Robert Green, another gem in suggesting how we can get our own way!

I find if you ingratiate yourself with teacher/head, you get much more of what'you'
want.
As far as 'cultural trips' are concerned the schools' (mine included) do no see it as such, so TBH I lie. I'm seeing David Cameron shortly and my DS is desperate to be taken, on a school day, shall I call it an educational trip? Or say he's not well/has appointment. I think I'll get away with the latter! Cheers

Hi Comps - I'd like to say 'cheers' to you too but I can't work the icons - but 'cheers' anyway - we all get there eventually - just in different ways. Say hello to 'call me Dave' and say I can't wait until his 'big society' finally comes into being - no sign of it yet though sadly .. and great news for me just shown some lovely people around my house and I think they're going to offer on it. They said they love it - so my change in life plan might be even closer than I thought. Wow! all in two hours the winter doldrums seem to be lifting, all I need now is a nice big juicy project to come in and everything will be just fine and dandy.

Kate, I'm completely with you on this. It drives me mad. IMO its simply because of Ofsted and because of a small amount of parents who abuse the system. One of the school targets is 95% attendance and the school has to demonstrate how it manages attendance, hence the constant form filling and hectoring on newsletters etc.

If you look at the law, ?The Education (Pupil Registration) Regulations 1995? states that a pupil may be granted leave of absence from the school to enable him/her to go away on holiday for up to 10 days a year. There is nothing in the law about 95% attendance!

I work with schools and IME, teachers actually hate the bureaucracy around attendance. They feel it damages the relationship they have with parents, but they have no choice because of Ofsted.

DH works for a charity that does a lot of lobbying work with MPs and the Lords and we have been invited to a service in Westminster to celebrate the anniversary of the Disabled Persons Act. I would love dd to go, I think it would be very educational but I know the school won't give permission. So she will either have to miss it or I will have to lie and say she is sick.

Kindred spirit or what - this is so so true. I hold some of my children's teachers in such high esteem. I can see and know they are frustrated by Ofsted, bureaucracy, state dictat and interference and that they are dragged daily further from great, inspirational teaching and more and more into a mire of state puppeteering. I feel for them I really do and that is part of the problem. They cannot act, they cannot even moan, so us parents have to do it for them.

I have actually suggested that I would be willing to boycott SATS tests if necessary in order to relieve teachers of the burden of having to complain about it to the state. They hate it, many parents hate it, and the children certainly aren't keen too, and it is meaningless box ticking to make bureaucratic jobs worths at county hall feel tthat they are measuring performance and therefore doing an adequate job of measuring the system's success. What utter tosh!

I am also so angry at seeing my 7 year tested, then tested again and again and that goes on until 11 - why, what are we teaching them - that life is about routine testing and nothing else? What of dreaming, what of joy in nature, what of art or the poetry of wise words well spoken, what of inspiration and aspiration and looking at the stars - that is what inspired those long before us and sustained them well. Yes, the 3Rs are important but they are not everything! Please please do take DD to the anniversay, it might be the single thing in her early youth that she remembers inspired her to go on to a life of dedication in the service of the disabled, or it might lead her to an interest in politics, or give her a thrill of the big city that fuels her on a quest to get there to live and work later in life - it's about broad horizons and scope, not narrow contstrained measurements and point scoring. Life is not about tests. Education is not about passing tests. It's furniture for the mind and it should be inspirational for the whole of one's life. Nowadays too many young people leave schoool not loving their time in education but relieved to be shot of it. it is so sad and the rot starts (or is avoided) in primary schools.

Oh also thanks Pink Teddy to the steer towards the 95 Regs statute - that is useful information and I'll look it up. It could be the start of quite a fine foundation argument for why the pupil absence form is neither based in law, nor has ever been tested in court (which I believe is the case but which I have yet to confirm). If it ever gets to fines or court for me then yes, I'd love to be the one to test whether it really has been legistlatively tested or is actually based in law.

Oh also complimentary - please do take your son to see 'call me Dave'. What an opportunity, what an occasion of lifelong memory. He will be telling his children in 40 years time - I remember the day my Mum took me to see the then Prime Minister David Cameron. Don't whatever you do be intimidated into missing that one. Seize the day - it's YOUR choice and you are his mother and the final authority on his welfare and best interest. Head Masters have all sorts of other agenda they have to answer.

Kate6490. I'm going to take him, and have a photo taken. I have seen him before, and to TBH I gave him a right roasting! The gentleman that he is, he still agreed to my photo with him. I agree with you, childrens' education is much more than the 3rs. Our children can have an excellent education at a public school and still do 'cultural' things. This however is not the same at state schools. One of the reasons DH and I are sending DS to a private school is that his class was ticking along fine for years, then two children left, and two children filled the space who had 'behavioural problems' this totally disrupted the class and there is nothing the parents can do about it. I would be very worried about this situation being replicated at secondary school.

You say your older two go to boarding school. My DH went to boarding school at 11 and hated it. How do your children find it? It may suit me, son at boarding school and me living in Marbella!

Both older girls love it, and are thriving but so much depends on the school chosen, the support offered by the parents and the way in which the children are bedded in. I went to boarding school too, when my parents lived a long way overseas and whilst I loved my school days I was left to fend for myself too young, alone in England and I struggled dreadfully with homesickness. My two have a very different experience and started at the school as day girls as 11 year olds, then became 'casual' boarders in their 2nd years(2-3 nights a week, every now and then) and then went full boarding (but only when they begged to) when they were 3rd years. The school fairly big (about 900) and runs from 11-18 and is completely co-ed. It is very evenly divided between day and boarding, boys and girls and it has fabulous facilities on site so there is always something going on for the kids to get involved in. It also has a very healthy approach to nurturing younger ones in 'lower school' but giving older young people more independance and autonomy in upper school (4-U6). The ethos is one of huge diversity, with every sport on offer, drama, music, debating and the opportunity for academic rigor if you are a 'scholar' (mine aren't - they are very sporty) and it's a six day a week schooling regime too, with sports fixtures all Wednesday annd Saturday afternoon. It is normal for day and boaring pupils alike to spend most of their time among their peer groups, at school.

Boarding school is not for everyone though.. you have to 'suck it and see' but when it suits, it is brilliant. I am only 30 minutes away from the school anyway so any time they want or need to come home, or want me to be there to support from the touch lines, then I'm there instandly or home is no more than a school bus ride away. Marbella and one child sounds nice though. My life is an eternal juggling act but that's Mum's life in 21st century Britain and I'm so used to it now that anything else woudl be abnormal
home is always here for them.

Thanks for your reply. I do have another child but she is only three so no worries there so far!

I noted you went to boarding school. Well I went to a really crappy secondary modern, where basically working class girls like me did not come out with any A levels. I worked extremely hard and went on to get two degrees one a masters from the LSE.

Today I'm extremly upset by an article carried by the Telegraph.'University Elite will be forced to take fixed quotas of state pupils'. The article goes onto say. These quotas are condemned by 'Private school head teachers' who say 'pupils from private schools will lose out simply because of their background'. Some students would be offered places on the basis of lower entry qualifications'. This has been condemned by head teachers as 'dangerous social engineering'. Why the hell have I worked hard to send my children to private schools, when state school pupils will have quotas, and be able to attend Oxford or Cambridgeg with lower A' level results? Universities will no longer be able to recruit candidates on the level of merit and the degrees obtained will not be recognised as first class as they are now. I feel I have been shat on twice, I did not receive a good education as a working class girl, and now because I have tried to better myself and give my children the best, they will be disadvantaged because they will considered middle class. The equalities bill discriminates against white recruits on basis of skin colour, and now this proposal will discriminate on the grounds of class.. These proposals will effect your children and mine. Don't get me wrong I'm all for upward mobility, but entry should be on merit not class or colour. I had to work bloody hard to get to both Universities. Why shouldn't others? David Willets says that it would be wrong to say that we are going to put in the bin, all applications from private schools. How dare they play god with our childrens' education! Next universities will have to have quotas for race, I think this is the next step, and we will be the same as the USA.

I sympathise I really do, and I am aware of the quota regimes as well. In honesty I am seriously considering switching back out of private and boarding once they get their GCSEs and putting them back into a London State Sixth Form day school , just so that they have a better chance at the University of their choice. Hopefully by then they will have built up a strong work ethic and a sound acadmeic foundation which will see them through. I too feel resentment sometimes. I don't come for a wealthy background. My parents had to go abroad to follow the work and I had to be left behind and I have worked damn hard all my life, with babies, pregnant, knacked, and with three youngsters in tow. I never expected otherwise. I'd been educated, I had been given the chance at a career and I was of a generation of women that felt that had to be breadwinners. So be it but I resent now being penalised because I chose to spend the very hard earned money generated on my children's education (rather than a Porsche, several X boxes, or a life on my bottom). I am not 'priviledged' or idle rich - I just work very very hard and want to spend my earnings as I chose and still retain some degree of choice and autonomy on how my family's life is run

Kate6490.
I was reading in the Sunday Times today that Richard Partington, senior tutor at Churchill College Cambridge, told parents at a meeting at Dulwich College, "they should not worry we will not be dictated to by Government". An article on the schoolrun.com states that parents of children who attend private schools, save the country 3 billion!

If we all pulled out of private education and insisted because of their social engineering policies, that we wish our children to be educated by the state where would they be? Not able to cope that's where! We pay twice, taxes for state school pupils and paying to educate our children privately. As far as I'm concerned if they wish to discriminate against my son because he attends a private school. I will pull him out and let him take his 'A' levels at a state school. It's the worse type of social engineering. What do the private schools' say? What will the school your daughters' attend say? Are they happy that state school children will be accepted at Oxford and Cambridge with lower 'A' level scores than your daughter's will achieve? If so, why go to a private school? If the Government is determined to debase the best Universities in the country it makes no sense for anyone to have any aspiration at all. If the coalition are going to kick us up the backside for trying our best and saving them millions no billions, then this will very well backfire on them and of course parents such as us, will feel VERY aggrieved and will turn once again to the state sector. This is a very ill thought out policy. Cameron is treading a very rocky path if he continues in this direction..
Even angry, I still say cheers!