How many people actually believe this twaddle ???????

[ivanhoe]

COPIED AND PASTED.

QUOTE. ""Cameron rolls Thatcher revolution on

The Thatcher Governments of the 1980s gave people more power and control over their own lives by selling council houses to tenants and shares in nationalised industries to voters.

However, the Conservative revolution only went so far: the delivery as well as the funding of most local hospitals, schools, and council services stayed in state hands.

Today, the Prime Minister will give notice that the revolution's to roll on: in a speech to civil servants, he'll pledge "to turn government on its head, taking power away from Whitehall and putting it into the hands of people and communities".

Elected Commissioners will set policing priorities; parents will run schools; charities, clubs, voluntary groups and local people will take over swimming pools, libraries, social services, youth provision, and services for vulnerable people, such as drug and alcohol addiction programmes.

Edmund Burke's Little Platoons will evolve naturally into Steve Hilton's Big Society.

David Cameron will say: "The real question is: how can we achieve these aims when there is so little money?...The answer is reform - radical reform. We need to completely change the way this country is run.""

Unquote.

Aside from anything else, Mr David Cameron is saying that we have "so little money".

I guess Mr Cameron hopes we will all sit back and forget the billions we send overseas. The £50 plus million a day we fund into the EU. Plus the ring fenced expenditures are almost a bottomless pit care of "GREAT BRITAIN'S CHARITABLE GENEROSITY" round the world.

A question. Would you rather the State care of your income tax funded Britain's vital services ?

Or would you rather local charietes funded schools ect, because the government care of "the state" washed it's hands of it's responsibility's ?

/////Appletrees Sun 30-Jan-11 12:21:34
ivanhoe, do you want to cut develoment aid or money that goes to europe, or which other are you talking about////

What I want is for Britain to make sure tax payers money is used in full to fund our own vital services.

And then if we have any money left over we can once again retrieve our status as the charity for the world.

Now, what is wrong with that ?

I'm just askng you that's all.

I'm gathering that it's both European money and develoment aid you want to stop.

I never thought I'd agree with Ivanhoe about anything but I do agree that we need to cut our EU contributions and our foreign aid contributions and instead use the money to pay for services in this country.

""I never thought I'd agree with Ivanhoe about anything but I do agree that we need to cut our EU contributions and our foreign aid contributions and instead use the money to pay for services in this country""

Precisely what dont you agree with, what I say ?

Look around the school playground at home time, and decide whether you'd really want a fair few of the parents you see there running the school.

Personally I want qualified educationalists to run my DCs schools.

And how recently were our local councils 'denuded' when suddenly all those builders and developers who sat on them were legally forced to declare their interest in Planning Applications? Mm?

Local, anyone? Or properly run in a transparent way? Not always the same thing.

because qualified educationalists have done such a marvellous job over the last thirteen years

or not

In principle I support a smaller state which provides the essentials. Then leave people to just get on with their lives.

Isn't that after all the sign of a free society? The sheer bureaucracy introduced in the last decade has been staggering. I can't even fit my own window to my own home now unless I am registered with some quango.

It makes me laugh how people like you Ivanhoe advocate the state should do more more more but at the same time loathe the very politician's who'd be running them.

Niceguy2, Okay so you support a smaller State.

So I take it you will be ompletely happy to have the NHS fully privatised with rationing ect.

And Community Care coompletely run by Charities ?

Where is the 'fully and 'completely' coming from? The NHS is already using private companies for certain functions, private consultants work via the NHS, things like carparks are run for profit, prescriptions are not free and rationing & postcode lotteries have been a feature of the NHS for years. Community Care is already provided by a combination of private companies, public workers and charities.

The lifeboat service is a charity.... does a fantastic job.

Chil1234, Yes and things havent even started yet, the cuts come into force in April, and we have around 4 years to go of this coalition.

""The lifeboat service is a charity.... does a fantastic job""

Im refering to everyday vital local services that we all use, for example, Community Care, the NHS, Post offices, and Education.

The lifeboat service is a vital - unique - local service for coastal communities and is a successful charitable organisation. Education is largely a public service but private education proves that there is more than one successful working model. I could cite the excellent work done by the Marie Curie or Sue Ryder charities at treating cancer sufferers in their own home. Or the Leonard Cheshire disability charity. Or the Parkinson's UK charity that my father finds so useful. Why is it wrong for more groups like that to augment publicly provided services? The Post Office has to decide if it's a service or a business.... and at the moment it is neither.

I really don't buy this 'end of the world is nigh and anyone that doesn't agree with me is an idiot' pessimistic fundamentalist socialist view of the world of yours any more than I buy the scaremongering of far-right groups and newspapers.

Chil1234 Then good luck to you in your ever so charitable new society, Britain.

So I take it you will be ompletely happy to have the NHS fully privatised with rationing ect.

/////>>>So I take it you will be ompletely happy to have the NHS fully privatised with rationing ect.

""In principle I support a smaller state which provides the essentials. Then leave people to just get on with their lives.

Isn't that after all the sign of a free society""

Being a free Society is no good if the Govcernment cut funding of our education systems and leave charites to pick pick up the shortfall, because this is what Cameron is talking about.

Any civilised western democracy needs the role of the state re- investment and subsidy into all our serrvices, it's nowt to do with
communism, but everything to do with common sense.

The problem with you Ivanhoe (aside from your trolltastic tendencies) is that you think that more money is the answer to everything.

So rather than thinking that people can work smarter and be more efficient, you automatically assume the only answer is to throw money at any problem and it will be fixed.

The biggest problem in our education system is not funding. It's behaviour. You can throw as much money as you like at schools. But until you address the underclass who don't give a toss if their kids learn or not then all you do is throw good money after bad.

The way you talk its as if the government are slashing funding to zero. Its nothing like. It's not even anywhere close to what the rest of the public sector are having to endure.

What I want is for Britain to make sure tax payers money is used in full to fund our own vital services.

Since anyone in Europe can access our services, if ours are significantly better than anyone else's then people will travel to use our NHS and benefits system, as indeed they have in previous years.

""mamatomany Mon 31-Jan-11 12:06:43
What I want is for Britain to make sure tax payers money is used in full to fund our own vital services.

Since anyone in Europe can access our services, if ours are significantly better than anyone else's then people will travel to use our NHS and benefits system, as indeed they have in previous years.""

Oh boy are you naive.

The whole of Europe have enjoyed much better services for decades because they pay higher income tax rates than we do, and EU governments invest much more of their GNP into these vital services.

Look it up if you dont beleive me.

""Niceguy2 Mon 31-Jan-11 11:20:57
The problem with you Ivanhoe (aside from your trolltastic tendencies) is that you think that more money is the answer to everything.

So rather than thinking that people can work smarter and be more efficient, you automatically assume the only answer is to throw money at any problem and it will be fixed.

The biggest problem in our education system is not funding. It's behaviour. You can throw as much money as you like at schools. But until you address the underclass who don't give a toss if their kids learn or not then all you do is throw good money after bad."".

The way you talk its as if the government are slashing funding to zero. Its nothing like. It's not even anywhere close to what the rest of the public sector are having to endure.

Who told you all this ?

British workers already work the longest hours in Europe.

Ivanhoe -- I don't believe you. In Belgium for a start health is not free at the point of access. Insurance scheme membership is required and payment is made at access.

Europe is brilliant and Britain is rubbish -- yeah right.

We are by no stretch of the imagination the first point of call for migrants. Yet they trek over, and hide under trains, and risk their lives to get here. Even though they are already in Europe.

UI'm proud to live somewhere where public ad welfare services are so globlly well regarded by people in need.

//////Appletrees Mon 31-Jan-11 16:28:53
Ivanhoe -- I don't believe you. In Belgium for a start health is not free at the point of access. Insurance scheme membership is required and payment is made at access.

Europe is brilliant and Britain is rubbish -- yeah right.

We are by no stretch of the imagination the first point of call for migrants. Yet they trek over, and hide under trains, and risk their lives to get here. Even though they are already in Europe.

UI'm proud to live somewhere where public ad welfare services are so globlly well regarded by people in need.///////

Okay, you have a completely blind faith that Britain continues to rule the waves, so be it.

Er no.

You are indeed trolltastic and a bit silly.

I would love some radical reform but I bet we don't see it.

We will never see radical reform in the sense of what is really needed, because it means income tax increases, but we never hear this through the media, well we wouldnt would we ?