9 ELDERLY PEOPLE DIE EVERY HOUR OF THE COLD.

[ivanhoe]

THOUSANDS of pensioners died from cold-related illnesses last winter as heating bills soared and temperatures plummeted, official figures reveal.

The number of deaths linked to the cold between December and March reached 25,400 in England and Wales, with another 2,760 in Scotland.

The figures are equivalent to nine deaths every hour.

The total gave Britain the highest winter death rate in northern Europe, worse than much colder countries such as Finland and Sweden.

There are fears the death toll could increase this year following energy price rises which may frighten elderly people into not turning on their heating.

Michelle Mitchell, of Age UK, said: ?It?s unacceptable that tens of thousands more older people die in this country every winter from the effects of the cold weather.

The fact that the UK has one of the highest winter mortality rates in Europe makes it clear this is very much a home-grown problem.

//////And it's something completely out of their control. It's disgusting./////

Elaborate please ?

///////As someone in their early 60's have you suddenly realised that you're not going to manage on the pension?///////

Are you being serious here, insensitive, or just plain stupid ?

No thanks, can't be arsed to elaborate to you ivanhoe. You're not interested in anything other than pushing your own agenda.

I'm very left wing actually, but you just put people off by not being prepared to listen to anything other than the same stuff over and over again and doing ////////// this all over the place. The key you're looking for is on the number 2 key. Shift plus 2

My DC's will emigrate I will be putting them on the plane myself (and hopefully they'll send for us later).

All three, apparently. :) I simply wondered if your anger about the level of the old age pension is from the perspective of someone that is approaching retirement and finding they have inadequate funds. Or are your concerns purely altruistic?

Thecrackfox. You are encouraging your children to leave? I hope you're rich, cos, no buggers going to stand your corner,(unless I'm your Social Worker) in the nursing home, while you're hauled out of bed!
dragged down the hallways thrown into the bathroom and a male voice booms out
"Go on Crackfox, get in that bath!" (whilst your nice male carer takes the piss out of you!)

I too have children, why should I want to deny a decent pension for others, because I fear my children won't get one?.

I will encourage my children to save and not rely on the state, in fact take out their state contributions and put the contributions into private pensions, cos as I've said I'm sure the state pension will not be around for most. PS all will be old one day! Including our children!

It is already like that (some) in care homes - i know plenty of people who have worked in them. I wouldn't want my children working in one either. Minimum pay, shit hours and literally shit.

I will encourage my DCs to save for their retirement. Just not in this country.

Part of the problem is choice as well - some older people ned to take more responsibility for their choices as well at retirement age - I know ///is going to jump down my throat for this but still.

All of my close relations and ILs have moved away from their families at retirement down to the west country/coast etc - hundreds of miles away - its great while they are fit and active but one by one they have developed health problems and then need looking after and weekend visits at exactly the same time as we are caring for babies and toddlers - its completely unsustainable.

And yes then they get flu and if they are on their own and dont look after themselves then it turns into something worse and they are in trouble. But they still wont move back to enable us to drop in on them everyday etc.

Dont castigate us all as not looking after our older family members - some of us are trying very hard and are completely stretched but its a 2-way street.

Oh and my dad spends his winter fuel allowance on an annual coach holiday and sits and freezes in his house because of it.

thecrackfox. It's shit stacking shelves in Tesco's (for minimum wage) but in that shite store, you are dealing with tins of baked bins! not peoples' lives.

Knowone to my knowledge is forced to work in a nursing/residential home. If they do work in one, people should have 'training' and if they cannot treat people and I'm not just talking about the elderly, but disabled and others who end up in these 'establishments'.with respect and kindness then they should be given the sack, they would, if I was manager!

I would rather stack shelves than work in a care home.

They should , of course, treat residents in care homes with respect and kindness but a lot of the time they don't.

falsemessageoflethargy. I can completely understand your point. Your father is lucky in that he appears to have loving family to care for him. Many do not, it is these groups that need the help of us as individuals, but more importantly the Government.

please note that "ivanhoe" appears every so often on MN spouting claptrap about pensioners getting more money (however rich they are).

Someone on the other thread he (I'm assuming it's a he) started this week discovered that he has bombarded loads of internet forums with his ////pensioner view//// and in fact has been banned from the Saga forum.

That was a terrible story, complimentary, about the idiot social worker and the old lady's cat.

My sis told me a similar one - a social worker told an old neighbour of hers that she should NOT continue going to the local hospital canteen twice a week for lunch (a favourite outing for meeting friends); because getting there involved crossing a busy road and it was dangerous!
Old neighbour got scared, stopped going, no longer socialises, is miserable, has lost nearly all her mobility now and her life is much diminished.

Re the hypothermia thing - it might help if Warmfront could expand the range of insulation works it'll do.

My house is an old cottage and despite central heating, I get VERY cold sitting here at the computer. I'm typing here with a hot water bottle on my knee and my feet in a polystyrene box! I kid you not.

Old houses are susceptible to cold air whooshing around under the floor and whistling up between the floorboards. Warmfront doesn't currently help with underfloor insulation.

Old age pensions - not too bad if bumped up by pension credit - does p.c. bring the pension up to about £155 a week? I know it used to be £140 in 2004.

But old people with savings beyond about £30k aren't likely to qualify, and some, for whatever reason, don't want to dip into their savings, so they're 'stuck' with the £97 (plus the winter fuel allowance money and maybe non-means tested Attendance Allowance, if someone has helped them claim it.)

People are just people, they make bad decisions sometimes, and pride can make old folk avoid asking for help.
That, together with frailty, means that winter will always be a high risk time. That's why good neighbours are so important at this time of year.

Having experienced nurseries which were supposedly doing one thing but in actual fact doing another I'd imagine care homes to be a hundred times worse.
It's pretty hard to get frustrated with a cute baby or toddler, but an elderly person just doesn't have the cute factor.
I'm with Expat no way am I rotting away, three score years plus 10 will do me nicely.

dotnet, ////Old age pensions - not too bad if bumped up by pension credit - does p.c. bring the pension up to about £155 a week? I know it used to be £140 in 2004./////

Old age pensions are a disgrace.

An what do you feel about my heading on my original posting. ?

Hi ivanhoe - I know you think I must be callous, but really I'm not, I used to help my late elderly and latterly Alzheimers affected neighbour, I'd visit her every day, take her bins out, etc., and I even slept over at her house a few times when she was very confused and scared and didn't want to be alone. She DID go into a home for the last few months of her life (and she was uttely miserable there.)

But about the business of heating being affordable or not - I think the winter fuel payment must just about make heating affordable in most circumstances?

My combined gas and electricity bill, spread throughout the year, is £79 a month (it might be £89, but I don't think so.) I am a bit mean with the heating - mind you I live in a biggish, old and cold house and only work part time as I'm not many years off retirement myself. So I'm at home a lot.

Call it £1,000 a year. Take away the winter fuel payment and if I were already pension age, then I'd be paying £750 for fuel - that's sixty something pounds a month, spread through the year. Fourteen pounds a week. I don't think that would make me have to choose between heating and eating, if I had £140 or £150 a week pension credit.

If you are on the Guarantee type of pension credit you can get housing benefit or council tax benefit on top, you know. If you're on the savings credit, then your basic income is above the guarantee credit level, so you have a bit more dosh.

I don't know why Britain is high in the league for old people dying during the winter. I don't think we ARE particularly neglectful of our old people as a nation. I think we are independent people though, maybe that's why we don't ask for help when we need it, sometimes.

If an old person has a fall and lives alone, even in a reasonably heated house, hypothermia is a risk, as he/she might be unable to summon help for a long time. I've read lots of times about old people falling in the bathroom and having to cover themselves with just a towel until eventually someone realises something may be wrong, and gets into the house to help them. Sometimes it's too late. Old age can be cruel, and often is.

Sheltered flats are good. The blocks are always hot, and the communal heating bill is shared between everybody in the service charge. But sometimes even then, people complain about feeling cold - it's the lack of mobility.

The basic pension is low, yes it is, but nobody HAS to live on that, and we boomers have had a lifetime to make provision for living above pension credit level, if we are worried about managing. And people who are really frail can get Attendance Allowance, no matter what their income, to help their day to day living.

If I hadn't been saving a little bit throughout my life and I were retired now, I WOULD be needing a bit of pension credit top up - maybe I'd get about £10 a week worth, & I'd then claim and get council tax benefit as well.

When I was working for the pension service, the people I felt most sorry for were the ones JUST above the level where they could get a bit of state help, because effectively they were no better off than the ones who hadn't saved - but you always get situations like that, and the pension credit system is a lot better than the one which preceded it.

I think it's wrong that very wealthy people get winter fuel payments - a lot of money is handed out to people who really don't need it. Joan Bakewell tried to hand hers back, but there's no mechanism for accepting it, and it's said it would be more expensive to administer a scheme where some get it and some don't, than just to keep it universal. That does mean a LOT of winter fuel money is being wasted which could be spread around more equitably.

I feel sorry for old people who can't manage, ivanhoe, I really do. But I think the time in people's lives when things are at their toughest is when they're YOUNG and have first taken on a mortgage and possibly also are starting a family. That's a very, very hairy time indeed. I hated looking at my bank statements and seeing I went 'over' a bit, every month for a while when I first got a mortgage. Horrible.

Vulnerable old people need family or friends' help to make sure they can live decently and comfortably. I know they often don't get that, but I really believe it's help and organisation they need to live comfortably; money is a lesser problem.

My part time job is with old people.

DOTNET. You are a "matter of fact" person.

IE, Everything is written down, so it must be okay.

Did you work for the Department of Works and Pensions ?

The old age pension is plenty and should be means tested.

There should also be money ploughed into adult care services so that those who have greater needs can access help. And that includes encouraging them to spen their savings on winter fuel and insulation.

////////The old age pension is plenty and should be means tested.//////

Rubbish. But apathy rules Britain across the generations.

I think £150pw (or thereabouts), Housing benefit, your council tax paid, free buses, £200 cold heating allowance, free prescriptions (free health care, which we all get), free TV licence for the over 70's is pretty good actually.

That's 'rubbish' only to you. You disagree with my opinion as I do with yours.

Nice to see you ignored the second part of my post which said that money needs to be ploughed in to facilitate people spending their assets as it's what they are for.

They mostly die of cold because of mental health issues which is what really needs addressing.

And as a non apathetic mental health practitioner my opinion is perfectly valid.

You don't know me so don't bother being rude and calling me apathetic.

I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I called you a sinister and grumpy old trout.

I couldnt care less what you call me, and you have no idea what you are talking about.

I have plenty of knowledge in this area.

Are you finding it difficult at your age to manage money? Are you feeling that your income isn't enough?

Have you retired from work yet?

Do you need some help from social services?

Are you also campaigning for job seekers allowance to be increased?

As a single person on that has to live on half of the weekly money state pensioner gets.

I agree dotnet. Sheltered housing is much better for an older person , than residential
care.
Unfortunately there are few around. In sheltered many can live independant lives, with a little help, and still be looked after by the warden, although I hear some boroughs are getting rid of the wardens overnight stay, I feel that is a policy that mmay put the elderly at risk.

Mamatomany. 'It is hard to get frustrated with a baby or a toddler'. When I was training as social worker, I worked in respite care for disabled children and believe me, some people do get frustrated with toddlers. When you are vulnerable and can't speak up for yourself, the moods and characters of your carers are really important. I just hope things have changed, as I have not been a social worker for some years, but have hoped that policies and proceures, are now in place that protect the most vulnerable in society, but somehow I doubt it.