BBC 4: 'Justice: Fairness and the Big Society

[jibbet]

Did anyone else watch this?
I soon turned off and sent this comment to the Beeb:
"Unfortunately the debate itself was unfair and unrepresentative. Mr Sandel called on far more men to comment and debate than he did women,so many salient points were ignored.
Men do not live as the majority population, women, do and are ignorant of their (unpaid) role as carer and domestic and the skills and intelligence integral in doing these activities successfully. That is why professional carers and cleaners ( and nurses and primary school teachers) are so appallingly badly paid and why footballers are ridiculously overpaid(it's only a game!). Mr Sandel also asserts that it is only through education that one can improve one's living standards and pay,going on to address university fees, but education and attitudes to education begin in the home. Who's most likely to inculcate those attitudes right from the start? Mum. let's redress the balance! Starting with the BBC!"

Very good program but i think you are being a bit unfair regarding who was called upon to speak. Carol gave a good account regarding the "cabinet of millionaires" with one of the Tory boys in the audience shaking his head.

Did you see the three "Tory boys" despicable little shits.

Nice to see most thought "Dave's" big society was a load of bollocks

I agree, that the few women I saw contribute (apart from the initial bimbo) had excellent things to say - I just wish we'd heard more of them.
Dave's Bollocks are a good idea, but for many reasons society has become too busy, selfish, apathetic, cynical or frightened - to name a few - to seriously consider adopting them. Fortunately, some saintly people always have.

Dave bollocks would be a good idea if that was to supplement the state but he wants it to replace the state. I did like the "rug being pulled out by the government" comment regarding the existing charities.

Yes there are some good people, my Mum of 82 works in two charity shops and always has time to help others.

Again I agree other costs such as warmongering and Trident are a terrible and total waste of money (though a lot of jobs maintain the 'defense' industry)which should be spent on maintaining some of Labour's social projects (a friend who was trained at significant public expense to teach parenting skills sees her job demolished in March whilst Ian Duncan Smith announces that 'broken families' cost the nation £20 billion per year. -
To me 'the Big Society' involves using my democratic right to try to persuade via emailing my MP and other ministers, protest or talking about it to try to change things, as well as doing my best to follow your mother's excellent example.

Jibbet, 100% right, we can afford wars and trident but cant afford to keep libraries open.

We can afford obscene bonuses for some but can cut care for those in dire need.

Strange set of values we have.

Will there be a second program?.

Gah, my digibox only recorded the first 20 minutes. This is the first of a whole series of programmes on the theme of justice.

Anyway FWIW I agree with newwave

If we really want to change things we have to make a BIG NOISE. (I'm old enough to remember Greenham Common.)

I'm going to my library tomorrow to take out the max possible books, I hope you find the precious time to do so too!

Coley, watch it on Iplayer and thanks for the info.

Jibbet so am I, sad to say you have to be rich or connected to affect the Governmnet. Murdoch who is an American citizen of Australian descent can walk into Number 10 at the drop of a hat but you and I who are citizens of this country cant even enter Downing Street let alone number 10.

Were just worth talking to at election time any other time we are an irritant.

Don't let that get you down new wave!!!!!

That's why it depressed me so that the Beeb don't allow women a VOICE. I hate the way there are only token women on,eg, Question Time when women have the most interesting and pertinent things to say about society and the world and its twisted priorities.

It's so easy to get online and instead of expressing yourself on Mumsnet, get to the people who run the **show.
I've had emails straight back from MPs and Cabinet Ministers - they're not as distant as you think. They want your vote, so tell them they're not going to get it unless they address your views.

Give 'em HELL! And join internet protest groups

Though of course the people who really run the show aren't our government. They govt are shit scared between rocks and hard places and they're mostly men who haven't a clue about real life (they have wives and secretaries)
It's up to us not to subscribe to the companies that control global economics, to live as simply as possible, to consume as little as possible. ( but then the whole crazy economy will go down the pan!)

Nonetheless, we must have faith in our wisdom and experience and out right to speak out as vital members of the human race.

I've never been on this website before but really enjoyed this evening's Justice: Fairness and the Big Society and wanted to see what others were saying about it. I have to say I'm really quite disgusted at the language you use on here. You say you want the BBC to give women a voice but the voices you have on here are used to spout hateful comments about people who were interested enough to actually go on the program and speak their mind. You don't even know them, let alone have a clue about their political persuasion! How dare you call them, and I quote: "despicable little shits" for having the guts to speak up on live TV? You may not agree with what they say but community is about respecting the views of others. If you want people to respect women's voices, please use them properly, for all our sakes.

Bristol2. How long have you been on MN? Newwave, has directed insults at MNs including me. I believe everyone should have their say, and that we should not use direct comments about anyone, but then I have used some choice words myself to describe Tony Blair myself!

I thought the debate was a little stilted.
Partly due to the presenters nervous over explaining style..

My life said she saw politicians in the audience who did not speak.

The audience were not as politically informed as a Question Time audiance.

I think they had been briefed beforehand to keep it polite. That said, it was an interesting experiment. "Gabby"

How dare you call them, and I quote: "despicable little shits" easy because by their words and demeanor they were despicable smug little Tory shits. I never said they were not entitled to their opinions.

"NewWave, has directed insults at MNs including me", telling porkies comp, I challenge you to show me where I have insulted you, other than calling all Tory voters selfish which is fair comment. I have however called the Tory MP's and ministers all sorts of insulting names.

I as bristol2, have never been on this website before and was interest to see the comments on Mumsnet. However as bristol2, I was very disappointed to read some of disparaging comments made in particular newwave calling all Tory voters selfish which she believes is a fair comment. I would be interest to know how she has reached this opinion when she does not know all Tory voters. I for one am a Tory voter and I would not consider myself as selfish. I live in Birmingham in what is described as a deprived area, had a comprehensive education but left with only one o'level, not your typical Tory voter and for your information my mom, was brought up on a council estate but was also a Tory voter.

I voted Tory as I was disappointed in the way the last government had run the country and the state it has been left in. Unfortunately some not very popular decisions need to be made by the government to get us out of the mess we are in.

It may now be best to wait and see what develops

Moseley36

Are Tory voters selfish?.

All Tory governments have caused both absolute poverty levels and comparative poverty to rise. They cause child poverty to rise. The destruction of northern industry by Thatcher caused massive poverty in those communities

Those previous statements are facts.

Also new inflation figures will exacerbate the problems.

Labour reduced the absolute poverty levels and child poverty levels, nowhere near far or quick enough but then they were trying to fix 18 years of social damage caused by the Tories.

Taking that into account if you vote Tory you are voting for increases in poverty because Tory governments see it as a "price worth paying". Bear in mind Tory governments also scapegoat the poor with the "benefit scroungers" tag.

Now you may as a tory voter agree with their policies on say, the NHS, Schools and maybe transport so you may vote Tory on that basis what you need to bear in mind no matter what you like about the Tory government it always comes with the "poverty poison pill". You may think what you like about the Tories outweighs the "poverty poison pill". You may not care about the poor, who knows.

From my point of view and having a social conscience I could not vote Tory as I consider this a selfish act as I would know I would be harming the poor and needy

@mosely36 - then shame on you.
I truly believe that redundancy programmes should be based on voting patterns.
If you voted tory in the GE then you should be first to put your hand up when the shit hits the fan, if you voted libdem, you should be in the second tranche.
What on earth did you think the tories were going to do for you and your family?
Seriously.

talking about Big Society; a much printed new Buzz word but I'm not quite sure what the underlying agenda will be.

Being naturally positive about Human Nature, and understanding the values of giving / sharing to make our society more inclusive and integrated, and our lifes more fulfilled.

There is a lot about government delegating some of their services to charities; which is super-cool as long as it empowers the service users, give them more choice about how to improve their life quality.

I am not ashamed for voting for the Conservatives, I always have. My Mom died last October at 75 yrs and was old enough to have lived through several Labour governments so she had good reason not to vote Labour and I held her opinion in high esteem, although we didn't always agree on things.

Budget 2010

UK Net debt since labour came to power
Jun 1997 at £350bn
Feb 2010 at £850bn

UK household debt under labour 2000
£600bn
UK household debt under labour 2010
£1,500bn

UK net borrowing as a percentage of GDP
1999/2000 minus 1%
2009/2010 plus 12.5%

Looking at the figures, I am not convinced that child poverty was reduced under the Labour government or we were better off at all.

Thanks for showing us how much the banking crisis affected the economy moseley.

Tory government = bad times for the people.

Tory voter = selfish millionaire or misguided fool.

A distillation of my observations.

Looking at the figures, I am not convinced that child poverty was reduced under the Labour government or we were better off at all.

Are you for real even the Tories dont deny it, they just blame others for it happening.

I'm neither a selfish millionaire or a misguided fool and lifeinlimbo, take a look at the figures in the link below and explain why they had risen before the banking crisis? These are facts not fiction.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/budget/7473001/Budget-2010-the-economy-under-Labour.html?image=5

I'll give Labour their due, they reduced unemployment during their time in government.