Newsnight: Ed Miliband argued twice for a VAT rise in Cabinet

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Peter Mandelson has spilled the beans!

Oh deary deary me, Mr Miliband, oh deary deary me.

There you go, edam. Far more eloquent than I could ever hope to be.

I don't think anyone can doubt that there were some highly suspicious practices carried out in the city before the financial crisis. Banks were offering ridiculous loans to people who were more than likely to default on them. Borrowers should probably have been more careful and thought it through more but if you are on a low income and someone is offering you the amount of money that could potentially make an enormous difference to your life then you're going to find it hard to say no.
That said the Governments system of regulation on the banks was appalling also.

Don't do yourself down, winky!

Hudds, I think the government was far too cosy with the banks and designed a regulatory system that wouldn't give the sharks too much trouble. Politicians forgot that they serve us, the electorate, not the bankers.

Agree with edam and huddspur. i don't think it had anything to do with ordinary people borrowing too much. That is spin to hide the truth that it was really about casino capitalism and derivatives.

edam, I think the previous Government was far too complacent in most areas of economic management but regulation of banks was probably the worst of all.

Dates back to Maggie deregulating the City. She did have a point, given what the City was like before - closed shop and all that. But things should have been tightened up well before the crash. New Labour was too desperate to prove they weren't Old Labour and were friends with the City - and people like Mandy and Blair were too greedy themselves to object to greed in others (remember Mandy's dodgy home loan from Robinson).

Ed Milliband is such a horrid little prick with the presence of an empty yoghurt carton.

Yuck.

yeah, but Cameron and Clegg are equally repellent.

edam, I think the real mistake was the decision to take regulatory powers away from the BoE and give them to the FSA which frankly is a total waste of space.

Clegg has that weird squirelly mouth thing.
It doesn't help.....
Apparently he queued up with the proles and no 'security detail' to come home frmo Spain on Quesyjet which cancels rodent features a little.

Cameron is good and Clegg is OK. Clegg said to us, "you're the bosses", which shows that his heart is in the right place.

Even the Guardian thought that Clegg was OK and presumably were won over by the "you're the bosses" message. They advised their readers to vote for the LibDems.

I like Clegg and think that people would be complaining about him no matter what he'd done after the election.

Think they are regretting it now, Claig... And his rhetoric is very different from his actions. 'You are the bosses now' out loud, and in private: 'except you know that bit where every MP in my party signed a pledge to say we'd vote against tuition fees? Well, we had our fingers crossed behind our back, ner ner ner ner ner'.

VAT, child benefit, so many issues where they lied through their teeth. Governments usually at least make a pretence of not immediately reneging on manifesto committments...

'Governments usually at least make a pretence of not immediately reneging on manifesto committments...'

yes, but this is not a normal government, this is a coalition. I think that is the reason that we have a coalition, it suits everybody.

"it suits everybody"

I don't think it does at all. I think there's a great rumbling of discontent especially during bonus season!

And I still don't think it's acceptable to renege on cornerstones of a manifesto.

Yes, you are right. I meant that it suits the politicians, who can now make excuses for reneging on manifesto somittments.

committments

but raising the VAT is a good thing, because it's a fairer way to tax

Is it a fairer way to tax?

I mean, surely as a proportion of their income, poorer people pay a lot more.

Did the IFS study not show that the amount of VAT spent as a proportion of income decreases with income. Although there are arguments against this also

huddspur - I think it depends where you measure the impact of VAT.

The very poorest spend a greater proportion of their income on items not effected by the VAT increase (food, heating).

But the very richest spend a smaller proportion of their income generally.

Those in the middle are probably most effected.

The working poor and middle income groups will benefit from the increase in personal allowance in April. The richest won't.

I agree Jackstar that you need to look at the impacts of all the tax changes being made by the Government. The raising of the personal allowance on income tax is a brilliant decision that the Government should mention more.

oh yes it's not a fairer way to tax at all is it. Why is he doing this then?