THE ESSENCE OF CAPITALISM

[ivanhoe]

The essence of capitalism is aiding and abetting the wealthy to accumulate more and more capital (wealth).

This is justified by the rationalization that living in a free society we all have the opportunity to amass our own fortunes.

The reality is that as the wealthy become progressively more and more wealthy (the very nature of capitalism).

They use their wealth to squeeze the working class that provides their labor and so insure their own dominance at the top of the heap.

//////jackstar- yet housing and food is more essential than health or education yet we leave that to the free market

personally I'd be happy to see a big shake up of what is state and privatly produced/////

PRECISELY.

/////The essence of capitalism is allowing everyone the opportunity to earn a living////

The essence of right wing Capitalism is to continue to create through market forces, enough unemployed people to keep inflation low so the rest of the unwary British public can enjoy cheaper goods, despite the fact that privatisation continues laying off workers through sackings and redundancies for the profit motive.

Ivanhoe

Your posts of 11.33 and 11.35 contradict each other . Do you believe we have a free market economy or a mixed economy?

I do have a desire in part to be wealthy. As money gives you the freedom to do as you wish.

In theory socialism is a fairer form of society.

In practice it doesn't work as it does not provide sufficient incentives for people to better themselves. I mean why work harder, take on more responsibility, invent new things and generally create wealth when you get nothing out of it.

Capitalism is far from perfect. But it does give people the opportunity to better themselves. The movers & shakers like Bill Gates, yes he may not have rose from the ghetto's but through his hard work his company now employs thousands of people worldwide, created jobs for millions more and now he's able to use his wealth to provide medicines in the third world. Who would create the jobs in a socialist society? The politicians? They're too busy feathering their own nests.

The cold war was a case in point. Capitalism versus Communism. It's no secret which won.

It is not a contradiction that (1) everyone doesn't start at the same place (some born to wealthy families, have access to higher education etc) but (2) there are opportunities out there for all to take.

This is not a contradiction. It is the world you live in.

Those who start out disadvantaged need to work harder or get lucky to seize on those opportunities perhaps, but they are not excluded from them.

There are many self-made men out there who have come from humble backgrounds.

Rather than whining about it, you might like to emulate them.

UK is not a purely capitalist country by any definition of the word. You have the NHS, for example, which is quite unthinkable in a place like the US. (Have you been watching the news in the last year or so re their health care system and the huge resistance to its overhaul?)

As niceguy said, there are simple reasons why communism failed and why a moderate dose of socialism is as far as any Western country will go in this day and age.

Is anyone interested in talking about this?

ivanhoe & itsawonderful - In your opinion, why did communist Soviet countries failed?

"... why did communist Soviet countries fail", obviously.

"Britain is now very much like America, where the free market rules with hardly any State intervention at all"

Nope, that is patently untrue. True, unadulterated capitalism no longer exists, certainly not in the way it did in the 19th Century (which seems to be when you're writing from). For e.g., companies cannot take over and dominate an entire market without state intervention/approval (European Competition Commission), companies can't produce goods in any way or form that they want (safety requirements, minimum standards), can't treat their employees in anyway they feel or in the most efficient, market-friendly way (family rights, working hours restrictions, health and safety restrictions in the workplace) etc.

We aren't a free market as state implemented minimum wage which means supply/demand will never quite work as it is meant to - which you could see as good or bad, or a bit of both.

We also have tax credits which keep salaries artificially low as the state tops up income so businesses don't have to.

Hard work is all well and good but plenty of people will have worked as hard/harder than Bill Gates and not be anywhere near as successful. It is never as simple as work hard enough and you will be rich and successful. You need talent and a big old dose of good luck too!

Oh and communism and socialism aren't the same thing. As far as I am aware, we only have state-communism to look at as a real example which is fine but is not comparing capitalism/socialism.

/////ivanhoe & itsawonderful - In your opinion, why did communist Soviet countries failed?//////

Errrrr, I prefere to know why Britain has failed ???????

/////There are many self-made men out there who have come from humble backgrounds.

Rather than whining about it, you might like to emulate them.//////

Okay, please explain to this site how you would emulate them ?, you be the teacher here.

But to make things hard, pretend through no fault of your owm you are starting off on the streets, without a job, or a home, and you cannot get welfare because you dont have a permenant address, so precisely what is "your" next move ?

////Nope, that is patently untrue/////

Yep, it is patently very true.

Then give an example of a way in which business can act without any state intervention, whatsoever.

ivanhoe - Answer the question please so we can have a (hopefully) interesting conversation here. You should be interested in why communism failed if you are so enamored with it as a system.

Unless, of course, you are in denial.

You do know that communism failed, right? That all those miserable little dominions of Soviet Russia embraced free market economics as soon as they tore down the iron curtain.

Can you lose the "////", by the way? I don't know what it's supposed to mean and it's a bit hard on the eyes.

Most people don't start off on the streets. They may start life in a children's home or belong to a Karen Matthews type. But then they get 11 years minimum state education. Theoretically, even they should be able to embark on life age 16 literate, numerate and - because of the NHS - in good physical shape.

Someone who is on the streets as an adult has had to have a lot of bad luck or made a lot of mistakes or both. Yes, it's difficult for someone like that to get back into gainful employment. But that's true after 60+ years of a socialist-inspired Welfare state.

Yes, just answer the questions posed. Would like to hear your answers.

Communism isnt my bag, sorry.

"Accumulation of wealth is a crime" is communism, not socialism. That is what you believe. Therefore, communism is your "bag".

Not that anyone cares, I imagine.

Can you grow a pair and answer the question?

Why do you think Soviet Russia and its dominions failed?

"Then give an example of a way in which business can act without any state intervention, whatsoever." ??????????

Ivanhoe there are basically two approaches to running an economy - one is the free market approach (capitalism) the other is a centrally planned economy (communism being the purest example, along with totalitarian dictatorship).

In the modern world most nations are some mixture of free market and central planned economies (even modern socialist nations are pretty reliant on the free market).

What exactly are you proposing?