Really shocked at myself for thinking this (tuition fees)

[Concordia]

I don't really want my kids to be paying back debt their whole lives.
I want them to be able to buy a home of their own.
If they want to do a longer course or a course at a more prestigiuous uni i don't want them to go for a less good option because they are scared of debt. i want them to achieve the best they are capable.
was at myself when i found myself wondering if we would inherit any money in the next 15 years which would enable them to avoid this.
feeling
it's rough that teachers and social workers will end up paying so much more for their degrees than investment bankers who can pay off quickly.
this government really doesn't give a sh*t about those in the £18, 000 to £35, 000 bracket. after all we must be pretty feckless to be that poor and our education isnt' important at all now, is it.

Also, I did write that one had to go to university to play chess.

But please continue twisting it all up to suit your own ends, because it's like pissing in the wind.

The fee hike has already been backed by the House of Lords. So it's pretty much a done deal.

Now people have to consider what they are going to do about it.

Fin.

'Shall we pay for that, too?'

Er, did I say you should pay for any of it, Expat? I was answering the point that only 'some' degrees are worthwhile to society.

So then we should only pay for those, Abride?

Because personally, I don't think we should.

Either pay for none or pay for all because the worth of each one of them can be argued by someone.

At present, the House of Lords has backed the government.

It's very likely this will go ahead.

You are having a violent agreement with someone who agrees with you expat.

I started university in 1997 which was the last year that students didn't have to pay any fees at all. My course was an amazing opportunity. An opportunity for which I am extremely grateful. With thanks being due to all the tax payers at that time.

Today, as a graduate, I am extremely happy for the taxes I pay to be used in part for young people to take up the opportunity of Higher Education.

Therefore, I feel unbelievably sad that this won't happen from now on in England. I feel as a citizen, a voter and a tax payer that I am letting young people down.

relevant degrees - microbiology, geology, engineering, architecture, nuclear physics. these are all vocational / relevant degrees and there are tons more. not just talking about law and medicine. btw media is an excellent vocational degree - good jobs for editors and producers out there. economics also good - relevant to plenty of jobs.

degrees like arts majors are interesting and enriching for the soul. excellent. that doesn't pay the fees unless you are exceptionally talented and can be another tracy emin.

and i have also worked in investment banking in the city. i have also recruited graduates. and guess what - we only touched maths, physics, computer science at a push. degree in history of art? hahahaha

I suspect, from talking to a friend who's a head of admissions for a humanities subject at a Russell Group university, that what will happen is that some of the universitiessome of the courses, or will simply fold. People won't want to pay to do degrees that aren't valued by society/employers. So History at the University of the M40 will probably not be around in 2014. But History at Oxford will be.

Just type in the names of top BBc presenters, or reporters or editors on the nationals, warthog. See what they read at university.

Dollar to a dime it won't be media studies. Usually it's history or English.

Yes, I agree that market forces will prevail and that only University education that adds value will survive the huge hike in cost to the student (or his/her parents). I think this is a good thing.

Abride - that's a good point which partly explains why Universities are split on the issue of raising the tuition fee limit. There will clearly be winners and losers.

Abride - X posted. I actually think some Media Studies courses will be 'winners'. It's a growth industry!

abr1de - so all the ex public school students will be fine. shame something can't be done to enable middle and working class students to do better at school and have access to these places

History at the University of the M40 - is probably in big trouble though.

Just two minutes googling reveals what the following journalist/editors studied:

Libby Purves, English
Andrew Marr, English
Jeremy Paxman, English
Fee Glover, classical civilisation and philosophy
Fiona Bruce, French and Italian
charles Moore, History
Adrian chiles, English

No media studies.

not sure what to say to your ha ha ha re history in art warthog. It does come across as incredibly ignorant and a good reason why i think spending on education is important. I think it would be highly embarrassing for britain to be seen as an uneducated bunch who don't see the value of arts and humanities degrees to society.

Abr1de - media studies didn't exist as a subject when that generation went to university. That is not very relevant data for tomorrow's student.

'abr1de - so all the ex public school students will be fine. shame something can't be done to enable middle and working class students to do better at school and have access to these places'

Sorry, don't understand that argument. Are you saying that the universities which will close were only there to provide places for the working class?

I think media studies has only been going 15-20 years - most of those are too old for it.

That said - Media Studies students will tend towards the slightly lower status jobs.

No one is saying they aren't valuable, just that they don't believe the taxpayer should pay for them entirely.

And you need ABB to do Media and Communications Studies at Bournmouth Uni. Not to shabby.

I bet if you looked at the current crop of young graduates at the BBc or on a national newspaper you'd still see the same sort of degree courses and universities being listed, Bonsoir. With, perhaps, some post-graduate vocational training.

The best revenge will be increasing the age for retirement due to the fact that the next generation of tax and NI payers can't cover the cost of the pensions.
That combined with a house price crash and no doubt a big stock market wipe out is over due. All those that stood by and let the children take the blame will be equally as indebted and wish they'd joined in the protests when they had the chance.

I went to a fabulous presentation last year by the headmaster of one of the best schools in Paris. Among the many memorable insights and quotations I retain from his presentation was this one:

"Do not attempt to give your children advice on higher education based on your experiences and those of your own friends and generation. To do so would be like sending your children out to explore France with a map from the 18th century."

abr - as i understand it a massive proportion of the intake at oxford and the other top unis are from public schools. so if these continue to exist and the ones that you call'm40' ones go that won't be a problem for public school students but it will for the rest

"as i understand it a massive proportion of the intake at oxford and the other top unis are from public schools. so if these continue to exist and the ones that you call'm40' ones go that won't be a problem for public school students but it will for the rest"

That depends on whether the more 'successful universities' expandor not. There was some discussion of this in the Browne report.