Tuition Fees increase. Why are they 'fairer'?

[LadyBlaBlah]

I genuinely don't understand why the coalition are saying that their proposed hike in tuition fees is fairer and more progressive than the current system.

They never seem to expand on this point. Can someone explain the detail?

I think part of the reasoning as to why they're fairer is as follows:
The actual averaged cost (across all disciplines) of educating someone in a degree is around £7,000 p/a. Local students currently pay up to £3k p/a in tuition fees, leaving a £4k shortfall. This is made up through government funding (so actually from taxes) and charging foreign students more (upwards of £10k). The reason this is unfair is because effectively, all UK citizens are paying for the shortfall, so (and this was the Economists argument) the poorest in Britain are paying for the education of the richest.
If you have tuition fees which more closely reflect the actual cost of teaching a degree, you reduce the shortfall, so for better off students (and their parents), their degrees are not funded by the tax payer. For it to be truly fair, then there should be enough bursaries, scholarships etc. for poorer students, so they don't get priced out of university.

Not Economists, Economist. The magazine.

absoflat - for me there's 2 holes in this arguement.

firstly i think that once people hit 18 they are adults and therefore how well off/poor your parents are should be irrelevant. yes, we earn decent wages but we will not be able to pay 81k to cover tuition fees for 3 children

secondly if graduates do go onto to earn more they will pay more tax over their lifetimes - so pay it back in this way

You want to capatalise the 'the' - The Economist. And I think you need a posessive apostrophe - "this was The Economist's argument."

Laugs- yes, thats one of the problems, and I think this is partially the issue we as a country need to debate. What is a degree for? Arguably you could say

• To impart highly specialist and conceptually advanced knowledge in the sciences

• To advance the fields of academic research and "knowledge for the sake of knowledge" in both the sciences and the arts

• As evidence of intellectual capability

I agree that we def need to think about how training for vocational subjects is delivered as in most cases, a degree is a totally inappropriate and non cost effective vehicle.

Basically, I totally admit I don't have the answers, but I think something needs to be done.

Absoflatkes, they are no proposals to help fund poorer students, in fact, there won't be a requirement to give any means tested bursaries as is the case now. No actual details of a new national scholarship have been presented, except it is a paltry amount.

I'm fed up with this argument that poor people are funding the rich, and working people are funding the unemployed etc, creating a society where we all resent everyone else, you can say that about anything that comes from central government.

I was just putting a possible reason as to why the government would think it was fairer.

Yes, I get that, but why should I pay taxes for my neighbour to have as much income as me not working. That's not fair is it. You can say it about anything and this is what this government are trying to argue everytime they chip away at benefits.

BaggedandTagged - I guess you would withdraw funding and they could then become private universities.

Coalition- yeah I guess. It's just where you draw the line. I can just imagine the uproar when they produce the list of those getting offed.

I actually think the danger is that the better Uni's (esp Oxford and Cambridge) decide to take themselves out of an increasingly shambolic and underfunded system and become private- then they can charge a lot more than £9k per year and avoid the annual trial by media over random person with 3 A's who didnt get in.

It doesn't greatly matter where you draw the line - scarcity and tougher entry will make the free universities better even if you get a couple of marginal institutions the wrong side of the line.

I think it's unlikely that the elite universites would be allowed to leave the state system.

Coalition- can they actually stop them? Genuine question - came up the other day and no-one knew if it could be stopped or not. Is there a legal thing or do you just mean "severe pressure would be exerted"

You are prob right about the line. I just dont envy the person who gets to compile the list and risk the wrath of every graduate of said, now defunct, institution

I'm sure that the government could find a way. You just need to pass an 'Elite Universities Administration Bill' and your golden.

Dreamingofsun

"firstly i think that once people hit 18 they are adults and therefore how well off/poor your parents are should be irrelevant. yes, we earn decent wages but we will not be able to pay 81k to cover tuition fees for 3 children"

You do realise that Tuition fees are only part of the cost. There are accommodation costs, food, clothes, books and beer money. Your dc's might be adults at 18 - but they will be far from independent. And they are supposed to pay the tuition fees - not you.

jackstar - obviously i realise they have to pay living costs as well - we have spent the last 17 years saving in preparation - though sadly not enough now fees have risen.

like many parents we are keen they don't leave college with £50k+ worth of debt. how they will ever be able to buy houses i don't know.

With house prices so high, kids who don't go to Uni also struggle to buy their first home - and they will, on average, be on lower pay.

I'm not saying any of this is fair. But those who make it to HE - will tend to be middle-class and in the top half of academic ability. In fact attendance at the top 14 universities is totally dominated by middle/upper class kids. They then go onto dominate most of the top professions.

If the Coalition had proposed reduced tuition fees payments - Labour would have (quite rightly) had a field day!!

BaggedandTagged, aren't Oxbridge already proposing financial aid to students who come from households with an income less than £60k? My feeling is that the govt are pushing the system towards the same model in the US which would allow the cap on fees to be removed altogether. Fees for the more widely recognised universities would clearly rise the fastest due to demand. Financial aid would then be granted to poorer students, who would in effect be subsidised by their wealthier counterparts.

University is an opportunity cost in terms of time, money and what you get out of it. The new system will put this in the fore front of all students minds. Not all universities teach to the same standard, and ultimately this is will bring Darwinism to sector. Only the fittest will survive.

But what of children like my DS1, who is very academic, but comes from a 'poor' family? Our household income without Tax Credits is £16K pa. If there will not be as many bursaries etc - how the heck does he manage to get through Uni? What with Tuition costs likely to be (a minimum of by that point) £9K, then costs of housing (we live too far away from any decent Uni's) costs of books and costs of living like food etc, even if he worked FT nights, he wouldn't be able to earn enough to cover costs.

Does that mean he will not be able to go to Uni? How is that fair? He is more than academically able enough, it will be purely financial reasons if he doesn't go.

Medicine could potentially cost 66K if this goes through. Taking into account tuition fees, maintenance loans and maintenance grants, the latter doesn't have to be paid back. This will give a very small amount to live on but do-able, just. Will see what bursaries will be available but I wouldn't count on them.

Under the present system the cost is about 16.5K taking into account academic bursaries, maintenance grants and maintenance loans which might need to be taken out say another 10K so 26.5K. So you can see the new system will be fairer.

loudlass - he will have to take out a loan like everyone else and then graduate with debts of 50k+. i don't think this is fare either.

i also don't think its fare to vary the amount of tuition fees on the parental incomes. we have 3 children and we can't afford to cover 90k of tuition fees even though we earn more than some parents.

No dreamingofsun of course you carn't, that's why it's paid back later, but you can afford and have managed to save money for your DC's try doing that on an income of 16k. That's why bursaries and maintenance grants are available under the current system, for those bright students from lower income families.

The government is trying to impose 80% cuts to university funding and a trebling of university fees to £9000 per year. They are also scrapping Educational Maintenance Allowance- the money given to some A level students so that they can afford to support themselves at college. Many of you will know about these measures already.

I am writing from University College London's occupation; students at UCL feel so strongly about these changes that we are occupying a room in our university to pressure our management into condemning the cuts. Our occupation has support from the NUS, Billy Bragg, Polly Toynbee, Chomsky and many others. As has been reported in the media thousands of students have taken to the streets in protest. The changes will not affect us directly as our fees are set at £3000 but we are campaigning for the next generation of children who are faced with excessive levels of debt and under-funded universities.

We know that it's a lot easier for students to protest than people with families but we would love to involve you in our campaign. If you, like us, feel these cuts are unfair and want to be heard, send a picture like this one

ucloccupation.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/i'm-a-baby- not-a-cash-cow/
NB- please take out the space between 'baby-' and 'not' in the web address.
Feel free to use a different slogan.
Send the picture to [email protected].
Parents and Students- let's stand together!

Follow our campaign on www.ucloccupation.com

Wow - real life protest infiltrating our little ole thread

Educationforall, thanks for posting, will have a look at the link.

Just want to say keep up the good work, I'm really proud of you all. My DD is in year 12 and in receipt of EMA for this year and as you know will be one of the first students to be affected by these cuts/increase in fees. So a massive thank you from her too.

"Our occupation has support from the NUS, Billy Bragg, Polly Toynbee, Chomsky...." Aren't there any well known social activists under 50?