Some musings on how to neutralise the unions

[longfingernails]

I think we should have some common sense changes to strike laws, and political donation laws, which will help update the Thatcher era legislation (which was excellent, but did not go far enough) to clamp down further on the union menace.

The political levy could be directed at whichever party the union member wishes - not just Labour. Union bosses must not be able to veto donations to any legitimate party.

The default option for political levies must be to opt out. Union members must make an active effort to opt in.

Unions must have a minimum turnout of 50% for a ballot for strike action to be legitimate.

Unions must not be allowed to ballot for a strike of more than 24 hours at a time.

The notice period for a strike should be extended to 3 months.

If strikebreakers have more effective job performance during strikes than the standard workers, it should be legal to fire the striker and hire the strikebreaker in their place.

It should be encouraged in legislation to allow a worker's striking/strikebreaking to be taken into account when determining performance related bonuses and other discretionary pay/perks.

Far more jobs, including those on the Tube, should be counted as "essential occupations" and be forbidden from striking.

And the big one: unions must pay back the cost of each strike, as decided by an independent arbitration panel, to the employer.

What do you all think?

I deplore unnecessary strikes and I fear we are going to see a lot of them in the next few years but your measures are far too draconian

Union memebers already have some say in where their levy goes. Certainly its the case for unison.

There is a choice between labour and general union campaign funds. (Ie. Campaigns against agesism, sexism, racism and rights for the disabled.)

There is help if you face a false allegation. For example in schools children often make false allegations of abuse against staff. Its madness not to belong to a union if you work in a school.

I think the OP forgets how much unions do. If it wasn't for unions there would be no maternity leave, men would be paid more than women for the same job, children would still be working down the mines.

I think that workers should have the right to strike. Deciding not to work is a bargaining tool.

Its not complusory to go on strike and its down to the indivdiual worker. The worker loses a day's pay by going on strike. Its not done lightly. Especially when the public sector is facing a lot of redunancies.

Wordsonascreen I also read OP as asking for help in neutralising onions. I was going to say put more potato in the dish.

This is why we have unions fighting for better conditions at work.

and why we still need them today - 42 builders killed at work is seen as good news

What do you mean by The Left?! That's such a ridiculous generalisation. Do you think the Left are a collective mafia? What about The Right? Why don't they rein in the BNP, the EDL and money grabbing bankers who happily take taxpayer bailouts with little conditions. It's a silly thing to say.

reallytired Workers should have the right to strike as a bargaining tool. Companies and organisations should also have the right to sack or demote strikers as a bargaining tool.

Igglybuff The BNP are (economically) very left-wing - far more to the left than New Labour. By and large, I mean the Labour party, together with the entire union movement.

"reallytired Workers should have the right to strike as a bargaining tool. Companies and organisations should also have the right to sack or demote strikers as a bargaining tool."

Workers don't get paid for going on strike. Empoyers are allowed to sack strikers after 12 weeks.

If an employer gets in a temporary worker to do the job at the rate they want to pay then the temporary worker gets paid and the striker doesn't.

That is ofcourse assuming its possible to get someone COMPETANT to do the job on such low pay.

Its economics and a case of who blinks first, the employer or the employee.

Ok when you the Left, doesn't sound like you mean Labour - do you call the Tories The Right. I've not read BNP policies but instinctively think of them as being on the right.

Well, the parties of the right are mainly the Tories and UKIP, with the Orange Book faction of the Lib Dems as well. The broader right-wing movement includes business, the military, libertarians, and certain religious groups.

The parties of the left are Labour, the Greens, and arguably Respect, the SNP and Plaid Cymru.

Oh - and the left-wing of the Lib Dems is quite lefty, as well.

Not wanting to get into a massive discussion but I am interested in left/right politics and I always mean to read more. I think some issues are easily polarised into left/right, others aren't so must be difficult to pin a label onto an individual. A debate for another day I think.

LFN, if you have your way the workers in the UK will end up as thralls of the managerial class.

It is beyond ridiculous to expect to be given three months notice of a 24 hour strike and as always your arguments point to the fact that you are anti the "workers" because you have a vested intrest or you are a dupe of the "ruling classes".

TBH you come across as a nasty piece of work and undemocratic.

Well said, Newwave.

LFN- your proposals are ridiculous, the right to withdraw your labour is one that should exist in a liberal democracy.

"Employees should make themselves better than their colleagues and distinguish themselves; the employer will then pay them more."

Hilarious.

lfn, where on earth do you live? Trumpton?

blah, blah, blah unions, blah blah blah strikes, blah blah blah etc. boring, unoriginal but I have come to expect nothing less from you LFN

(speaking in quiet voice, hoping not to be offensive)

Is there anyone on mn who lives in Germany? I think that the German unions have negotiated pay cuts for their members, because, relatively, prices have fallen and the Germans understand the need to remain competitive, esp with the unpredictably strong Euro.

If this is what has happened in Germany, it says to me that 'Unions' are not a knee-jerk leftist malarkey. But a bit more economicaly literate.

creamlegbar- one of the problems is that the union leaders in this country eg Crow/Woodley make such unreasonable demands. They seem unable or unwilling to accept the economic situation that we live in. That said the right to withdraw your labour must be kept and the OPs proposals are ludicrous.

' I have no objection, in principle, to minimum turnout thresholds for local and general elections too. Then if a constituency or ward couldn't be bothered to vote, they can forfeit electoral representation.'

no taxation without representation. Can they then remove themselves from the tax system?

I think we need strong unions to protect workers' interests. Germany has strong unions and is an economic and industrial powerhouse. Treating workers decently doesn't harm the interests of business.

Claig, I am impressed - this is about the third or fourth time we've agreed despite coming at things from very different political directions.

yes edam, we are not really that far apart. we are both on the side of ordinary people.

It seems so, Claig! Dunno, I'm on the side of ordinary people and especially the vulnerable - which could be any of us, tomorrow, if we were hit by bad luck. (The rich already have plenty of power so can look after their own interests very successfully.)

Darn, i thought this was a soup thread.

I could have neutralised your onions anyday

but sadly politics is beyond me.

Au revoir...