Child Benefit:: donate to local school

[grannieonabike]

Rather than freeze Child Benefit, those who don't need it could always donate it to a local school.

Grannieonabike - the only democracy any of us have is voting. If you want power based on how you spend your money, that is raw capitalism. Politicans no perfectly well what the public want. More services and lowers taxes.

There are two useful quotes here:-

"Democracy is the worst possible political system apart from all the other ones"

"I've met the man in the street and he's a cunt"

Democracy may or may not be the best system available - dunno - but it's the best we've got - agreed. Doesn't mean we can't try to make it better.

The man in the street - that's you, isn't it, and me. I'm not a cunt. Are you?

Democracy may or may not be the best system available - dunno - but it's the best we've got - agreed. Doesn't mean we can't try to make it better.

The man in the street - that's you, isn't it, and me. I'm not a cunt. Are you?

How can you have more services and lower taxes? How do you pay for the services?

You can't. But that is what voters will ask for if you ask them.

Grannie - call me cynical but I suspect if enough people did that, government would just use it as an excuse to cut funding. That's what happened with the lottery. Orginally the government was all, oh, lottery money is for extras, not to replace core government funding for the arts (and sport). Few years down the line and guess what's happened...?

In my experience, one reason why many rich people are rich is because they are marvellously careful about where they spend their cash. They do not flash it about but look after every penny. So to say 'if you don't need your CB give it away'.... would be a message that would not reach such people.

Very true, Chil. My uncle's a millionaire and he certainly doesn't splash his cash around, far from it.

Edam - do governments cut money to schools with PTAs that are really good at raising cash?

Chil - I know you are right, but there are some people who have been saying that no, they don't need their CB. Just like some richer pensioners say they don't need a free bus pass. There are people who don't want to take from the state. They may be few in number, but they exist!

If a system were to be set up that allowed them to donate, anonymously if they wanted, into a local pot that was divied up rather than an individual school, they might choose to do just that! They get a warm glow from doing a good deed; kids who need it get the money. Win win.

In a sense, yes, given those PTAs that raise the most money will not be in deprived areas that receive extra government funding. (Am a school governor - at least in our LEA, any extra funding always goes first to schools in deprived areas. Which is probably as it should be.)

However, the child benefit idea would be more formal and regular than the general PTA summer fair thing. Easy for the government to think 'there's a reliable source of funding to cover X, Y and Z, we don't need to do that'. That's what has happened with the lottery - originally promised for 'extras' but over time inevitably became an excuse for government not to fund stuff the lottery could cover. (And then they decided to bid for the ruddy Olympics and diverted billions of pounds of lottery money to this grandiose vanity project the country cannot afford.)

why don't they just link it to PAYE or earnings and cut it off for people over a certain income-level?

Because the original idea was to put the money in the mother's hands, as the primary carer. In case the father went and drank his week's wages. Is still quite a good idea to give money for children to the person who does the lion's share of looking after the children, although obviously either parent can claim CB.

CB is that it is relatively cheap to administer and fund. Its real value has dwindled over the last 20 years and that will continue for the foreseeable future. One day, when the value of the CB buys the equivalent of a packet of biscuits, it will be quietly scrapped and the means-tested benefits aimed at children (tax credits or whatever) will take over. Something similar was on the cards for pensions... pension credits covering the elderly poor and the state pension dropping away in value...but that has been halted.

In the meantime, only a fool would turn down free money. People who say 'I don't need £20' are idiots.

Then the original idea is outdated. Time to revise things.

Not really, in most families it's still one parent who does the lion's share of the childcare. Usually the mother.

Firstly it is not free money, I and others pay for that money in our taxes. Secondly i don't pay my taxes to subsidise horse riding lessons or similar which is where my child benefit would go if we kept it. It is much better off donated to a charity or not claimed at all so the government can spend the money where it is needed.

So I am not a fool I just have a conscience and am not greedy

As a working poor woman, edam, I would rather see it somehow means-tested than frozen, tbh.

I hate the idea of it being frozen. There have been times when I have depended on CB.

One of the best things about it is that it is given to the mother. This means a lot to me. I don't have to fight for it, I know I will spend it wisely, the government is in effect saying to me 'you are the best person to administer this'. Irritating for men, perhaps, but men still earn more on average than us, and it is like a tacit agreement that yes, society is unfair but we're trying to redress the balance.

In the situation you describe, Chil, tax credits won't be automatically given to the mother.

I think there is a place for universal benefits that are easy both to administer and to claim. Everything else is very complicated. Maybe linking it to earnings as expat says, but some of the richest people don't work!

Edam, the government could never see it as a 'reliable' source of income as we are talking about donations.

I suppose we are free to not claim it. But then the government could use it for something we don't agree with. If we donate it, we get to choose where it goes.

How hard is it anyway for the local council to set up a system for you to divert your CB into a fund that is to be used only for schools? It would be an interesting experiment, I think.

'One of the best things about it is that it is given to the mother. This means a lot to me. I don't have to fight for it, I know I will spend it wisely, the government is in effect saying to me 'you are the best person to administer this'. Irritating for men, perhaps,'

It's given to whoever the primary carer is.

Men can claim it and tax credits, too.

I'd rather see it revised in how it's administered than frozen.

Oh, didn't know that. I think it used to be given to women. I suppose that really is unfair, though ...