Thinking as Religion

[DensIdeasGroup]

One of my first clients, in 1999, after doing a day's course on the Six Thinking Hats with me - this was in Cornwall at the time - wrote to me and said that since her course she is "less stressed and solves problems more easily".

The Hungerford Guidance Centre takes youngsters who are too violent to be taken by normal schools. David Lane, Principal, did a 20-year follow-up after the youngsters did some thinking lessons. 90% of those who did the lessons did not re-offend.

We also have evidence of people who have got off drugs through better thinking, and children in trauma, who have recovered more quickly, after using the Six Thinking Hats, in that case together with a psychologst, because mental attitude is not generally encouraged in hospitals, neither is thinking taught in our schools and universities.

Taking thinking lessons improves mental health because a person has greater self esteem, confidence, and sense of self-worth and achievement.

Once a person knows what to do in their mind when problems occur, the person becomes happy and fulfilled, with far less stress.

That has nothing to do with religion or believing in a higher power. It is all about me me me.

Anyone can believe in a higher power. Few can constructively change their own thinking. There is a huge need for better thinking for all the me's out there, who are important in their own right. Other people are important. (God can look after himself. Could he make a stone so heavy that he himself could not lift it?) People are more important!

I think there are lots of parallels between different systems of thinking (including therapy) and religious systems of thought - some positive and some negative.

Yes. There are a lot of parallels. We still need better thinking!

Urgh.

Isn't there some sort of mumsnet rule against this kind of thing? I can live with having Boden gear pushed on me every time I open mumsnet, but I draw the line at people trying to sell "thinking lessons" in the philosophy section.

What are you hoping to achieve with this thread, DensIdeasGroup?

Mums are women with brains. Some women will feel that they are not using all their brain potential. Some mums may enjoy more than mutual envy, being clever, the same old arguments, etc. Some may feel they are not just one member of a mediocre group wasting words. Some may enjoy a type of thinking that is not personal, nasty, attacking, at the slightest idea that appears different.

Den - what exactly are you getting at? I don't think any women on here are in any doubt that "mums are women with brains". And where are you finding this "mutual envy" and "personal, nasty, attacking" thinking.

If you are intent on selling us clear thinking you would do well to be a little clearer yourself rather than beating about the bush with patronising platitudes.

And no doubt some women lurve being patronised.

ZD You have made yourself clear that you don't like what I represent. Thank you. I believe very clearly that you may not represent everybody but speak only for yourself. You have now spoken. Thank you.

But what exactly do you represent?

pass the barf bag

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." (Matthew 19:14)

What do you think is meant by this Gospel verse?

ZD
My profile, web site etc. is freely available and open to anyone to read.

Have you read the introductory paragraphs to this thread? If you don't like the ideas/ideals of improving thinking, just say so! Thinking is necessary in every field not just philosophy, religion, etc. Please feel free to comment on the content of the thread.

In the main in society, especially British society, we are complacent about our thinking. It is a mediocre type of thinking but very common, to wait for people to have ideas, then shoot them down. People even do this to their own kids!

Den, I have no objection in principle to the idea of improving thinking, and if you were to offer some specific examples for discussion I'm sure it would be interesting.

My objection is the fact that your tone is far more that of a salesman than someone interested in having a discussion.

But if I am wrong, and there is something you would like to discuss, by all means put the question to us.

msunp

Jesus could not talk about thinking, because the pharisees, lawyers and scribes etc. had already gazumped this as their own field.

Children can be taught anything, and they will believe it. This is why they need to be taught thinking. They will make up their own minds eventually anyway, but with thinking skills they are empowered with self esteem and confidence in the use of their own brain.

ZD

Thanks, I originally thought the introductory paragraphs would have been self evident as items perhaps stimulating some discussion. Let's see, it's not easy to suggest items for discussion that will necessarily suit everybody at the same time. Something in the family context would appear appropriate for this web site, and these are some ideas for discussion from the top of my head:

1. How to get children to think for themselves

1. How to treat children's ideas, to give them self esteem and confidence

1. What do we mean by thinking skills

Please feel free to choose one of these topics or to suggest your own.

Teaching thinking is like walking a tightrope because most people's ego is attached to their own thinking. So to suggest that thinking be improved is automatically to suggest that people are wrong as they are. Or people feel that their egos are under attack! The front left wheel of a car is not wrong, but we need all wheels. Our current thinking is not wrong, but we need supplementary thinking skills because current thinking styles are inadequate.

Is that what you think Matt 19:14 means?

mvemjsunp

If I gave it the meaning which fits your preferences, we would be back to square one. The type of thinking I am referring to is to do with the future on this earth.

I have a vision where children are respected for their own ideas. They cannot have their own ideas if they are constantly told what to believe. Part of adolescent rebellion is nothing to do with their age, but to do with rebellion against stupidity.

Youngsters know when they are being spoonfed dogma, and they silently wait for a future where they can assert their individuality and their own ideas. Kids know when adults are deceiving them, unwittingly, because there is nothing better available to believe.

We are now at a time when it is possible to believe in the creativity of our own minds through the constructive use of thinking skills.

One can still keep one's own religion, and perhaps even enhance it through better thinking.

I have the authority of training in Dr Edward de Bono's skills, just as Jesus had the authority of his heavenly father.

Just quoting verses from the Bible does not give youngsters the self esteem and confidence they need.

Den, as far as your opening paragraph goes, I'm afraid the lack of questions coupled with the references to your past clients' endorsements of your work made it look a lot more like cheap self-promotion than the opening of a discussion.

But if you are genuinely interested in having a discussion, then yes, looking at how to encourage children to think for themselves would be interesting.

I suspect that a large part of children's thinking patterns is laid down during that phase between 2 and 3 when they are constantly asking "why". If the responses given are inadequate at this stage then no doubt there is work to be done in helping them to know their own minds later on.

In the context of religion/faith, Matt 19:14 means that we can access the Christian faith without bringing anything to it. We do not have to be anything - clever, rich, beautiful, or thinking. We can simply come as we are.

Obviously the academic discipline of Theology is of interest to some Christians and can be a natural progression on their journey of faith. However, it has little impact on mission and the building of relationships, central tenets of the Christian faith.

Many aspects of the Christian faith 'surpass understanding' and no matter how philosophical we get, it is very hard to square up doctrines such as the Trinity with human understanding and experience, no matter how many analogies we come up with.

Jesus scolded Thomas for doing too much thinking and not enough being faithful. A lesson for us all. On the other hand, he valued Mary's listening ahead of Martha's doing/hospitality.

One thing the church tells us is that we can sin via our thoughts - something to heed.

And going back to Genesis, we know all about the Tree of Knowledge!

The Christian faith is about relationships with people and with God. Thinking for its own sake should be well on the back burner. Whatever thinking we should do about the Christian faith should be led by the Holy Spirit and not by Human pride.

Zepherine,

When I am in a bible study and someone asks the 'expert' about what something means or tells us, the expert usually replies, 'what do you think?'

I don't think we expect someone else to give us all the answers. They are generally teased out of us by an encouraging facilitator.

The Anglican faith is defined by Scripture - Reason - Tradition. The most important part is Scripture, but Reason also means that we have to think for ourselves about what Scripture and Tradition teaches us. This is why the Anglican Communion often struggles with church leadership (as opposed to Roman Catholics who have Tradition, Magisterium (church authority) and Scripture), but a price worth paying.

mvemjsunp

I accept your Christian beliefs. Personally I find some of the ideas dogmatic and unnecessarily so. But this doesn't bother me because I have no need of argument.

Even so, thinking for its own sake is a very good idea. Young people especially love having their own ideas. It is only a few hundred years, in Shakespeare's time, when church attendance was univerally compulsory in England, and I think most people are glad that this is no longer so. Also thankfully we no longer suffer under the divine right of kings or the direct rule from the pope.

Humans have always rebelled against unnecessary authorities, feeling rightly that somehow they are being deceived. Just as better thinking protects us from slick salesmanship, better thinking protects us from religious and political dogmatic argument - which usually consists of who is right and who is wrong.

Why have you suggested that Thinking is a religion?

How do you feel about Thinking = Hedonism and its contribution to society, particularly wrt parenting skills, poor behaviour in the classroom, benefits culture?

ZD

OK, we can then treat my opening few paragraphs as harmless provocations!

How to get children to think for themselves? I would put forward the following ideas, which have no pretensions to being comprehensive. What would you add to the following

1. Teach them thinking skills
2. Listen carefully to their ideas
3. Read some child psychology, just enough to get beyond the "I know it all" approach.
4. Show our children we trust them; show patience as an example; show by example rather than constant telling
5. Don't argue about who is right
6. Let them see what you are thinking and feeling honestly, but without a constant shower of words and phrases at them
7. Make special times when you think together as special, and give any rewards or treats afterwards as a surprise
8. Share ideas with friends and compare results
9. Show deep respect to the child at all times

10. Ask the child's opinion and never put them down