Atheists call for 'debaptism' - should be 'An Atheist'

[beanieb]

story

I suppose I am an Atheist, though I am not sure. I was raised without religion, was never Christened, don't think I was taught not to believe but rather that I was not exposed to any kind of religion at home.

So I call myself and Atheist, but I am not calling for 'debaptism' - Personally I don't need to be debaptised.

Anyone else here feel that strongly about their Atheism that they would get debaptised?

btw my line about the 'collecting plate' was unfair. I'm sure there are sincere priests who are not just after money or control over people.

I find it difficult to understand the all religions are valid line, because they can't all be true, as that would be contradictory. I can see that there are similarities between Christianity, Islam and Judaism, but how can the monotheistic faiths accept the polytheistic ones - they are all based on the concept of the one true god.

I recognise the validity of other religions, even if I dont belong to them - there is nothing inconsistent about that. I dont have to believe the tenets of a religion to accept its validity. I dont believe in buddhism, but can see no argument for trying to convert buddhists to my own religion.(that's where I part company with aggressive atheists, I think).

I never attended an act of worship at school that required anyone to stand up and say they believed in god. It's a positive start to the day, but it should be offered in the main religions of the local area, plus Ethics for children whose parents are afraid of them being exposed to dangerous god talk.

thats how religion is offered where we are living - main religions are catered for, minority religions and atheists do ethics. common sense approach.

An act of worship is when you err worship. Now you might be bowing your head and pretending to worship, but then you are misbehaving aren't you since you have been told to worship. The point being that you shouldn't be TOLD to worship someone elses god.

And yes you can refuse on behalf of your child but they are then not allowed in assembly at all and the assembly is not just the worship, but other things like announcements etc that they need to hear.

Actually when you say ethics for the others you may be thinking of pupils who don't take RE which is different from the act of worship.

Not sure what you mean by validity. Are you saying they are valid but not true? If so it comes back to the quote again. If you disbelieve in them all except one etc

What do you mean by validity then? Are you just recognising the rights of people to believe in whatever they choose? For me valid means truth, so you would be recognising the truth in all religions, which I think you can only do if your faith is in some sort of creator/other/spirit type concept and you think that all the religions have captured a bit of that but none of them are really true. Now some people do feel that way, but you can't really do that and be for example a Christian, because you would be going against the main tenets about belief in one god.

Or you can look at the world in an anthropomorphic type way (ie people have a propensity to believe in a concept of the other - or god(s)) but again this doesn't lend itself to traditional faith indeed it is an approach many aetheist/agnostics use to make sense of the plethora of religions.

That you don't wish to convert people of other faiths to your own is another matter, but I can't see how a Christian can really accept Buddhism as a good choice for someone else if they actually believe that they themselves have been saved through Jesus - surely you would like everyone else to be saved too?

Most prayers require a belief in god for them to make any sense (thank you god is meaningless if you don't think there is one for example), and in state schools the assembly prayer or act of worship will be Christian as that is what is legally required. Ethics if taught at all will be at secondary level not primary.

Nightbynight, re your contention that you've never attended an act of worship at school that required anyone to stand up and say they believed in god.

At my childrens' school, a fairly ordinary primary school, they say the Lord's Prayer on occasion. That starts (in the school's version) "Our father, who is in heaven..." Not "...who might be...", or "...whom some believe to be..." but "...who is..." It's framed as a statement of fact.

Does that not count as the children being encouraged to profess a belief in god?

Sorry, I can't take this discussion further without talking about my own private thoughts, which I dont want to do on the internet. Nor do I have the will to soak up your evident resentment against christianity.

Ethics is a non-religious subject that considers similar sort of topics to religion, and is taught at primary level in france and germany. It is not the same as opting out of RE, and neutralises the whole issue.

typed long reply addressing everyone's points and then realised that it gives too much away....

Well I'd have let you slip away quietly without commenting if you hadn't mentioned the "evident resentment"

There will continue to be opposition and resentment while the christian clubs insist on controlling what non members do, say or think.

You objected to my quote about christians diebelieving other religions and tried to say that you did. Eventually you revealed that no you don't believe in them. You just don't mind them believing it.

People are always telling me on here that christians do believe all religions are equally true. Next time perhaps you will leap in and tell them they are wrong.

I hold no "resentment" about Christianity or any religion (with the exception of Scientology, for personal reasons). I find religious history and the way that beliefs change and evolve over time absolutely fascinating.

I have no resentment about Christianity in my own life, I just don't like it being foisted on my children. I think having ethics instead of religion taught at a primary level would be a much more positive thing - I'd always rather have my children think about their behaviour and that of other people rather than following rules blindly (one of the things I liked about their UK school is that the children had set the "golden rules"). Of course I would like them to be taught about faith too, because it is important to understand why people do the things they do.

I don't however think that the role of religion in people's lives is always very positive. I have had a few friends go through real pain in trying to manage their way between the way they wanted to live their lives and the way they were being told to live their lives by a church leader. It all seemed incredibly pointless when what they wanted to do was not going to hurt them nor anyone else, and might have really helped them to work through their emotions and grow. My parents have also had real struggles because one of them happened to be Catholic and one happened to be Anglican, again pain for no good reason at all. And then of course there is the Pope and anti-Catholicism too (I was brought up a Catholic). I fundamentally believe that the church should be disestablished so that those who wished to observe their faith could so so through a positive act of choice.

Oh and I agree Snorbs, the history of religion is fascinating and something that could be usefully taught, but probably at A level because it is complicated.

oh dear. I knew that talking about religion at all would be a mistake. I havent "tried to say" or "eventually revealed" anything, and Im afraid, onagar, that you dont have the power to "let" me do anything. You are not the prosecuting counsel, you know, and I am not the prisoner accused of hypocrisy and lying.
I am also not "slipping away quietly" (implication: my argument, and by extension, christianity, doesn't have a leg to stand on). Simply, I dont want you trampling all over my personal philosophy, therefore I don't want to talk about it.