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Original poster

I feel bad about DS.

26 replies

Alambil · 09/02/2009 01:07

That he doesn't have the knowledge of Christianity that I did at his age (rudimentary, granted.. but there nonetheless)

That he doesn't get to have fun and hang out in Sunday school like I did

..... lots of other things really, but most of all...

That I can't bring myself to take him to church to repair all these issues

OP posts:
rosbif · 09/02/2009 05:05

What about getting a simple book that explains some rudimentary concepts to him? How old is he?

amber32002 · 09/02/2009 06:42

Which bit worries you about going to church? No need to say if you don't want to...?

Original poster
Alambil · 09/02/2009 09:01

He's 6 - he knows that Jesus is God's son and His birthday is Christmas, He died at Easter but that's about it.

Amber; the only way I can explain is a VERY long history of many Church leaders screwing me and my extended family over, most recent of which is my old church siding with my domestically violent husband over me in the court case over contact with DS (they told me they wouldn't get involved; they gave him character references and let him have full, unsupervised access to the building for contact to take place when it was meant to be supervised and in a place like a contact centre due to safety issues)

I pointed out to them (the leaders) that he'd been lying to them and actually THESE were the rules and that he'd done X, Y and Z to me (including rape and assault and nearly blinding me in an attack), but still they chose to believe his side...

I just have no trust in any church leaders now.

I must admit that these churches were C of E, pentecostal (happy clappy) types and not "regular" C of E so that may be different; they were pastors and pastoral teams instead of a vicar and verger combination, so perhaps the more formal type church would be safer?

OP posts:
girlandboy · 09/02/2009 09:05

Could you not see what other churches are near(ish) to you, and then ring the vicar and have a talk with him/her?

If you explain the difficulty you have, I am sure that another vicar would welcome you.

Do you have friends who could recommend another church?

Original poster
Alambil · 09/02/2009 09:14

I'll have to move out of the church I'm used to (as I said - New Wine/Hillsong/Soul Survivor type churches) to a more errr organised church so it'll be a big move but I guess I could just do it.

We have a church at the end of the village road; a 20 min walk (if that) away.... I'd go there if I went anywhere due to convenience I think.

No friends to ask - I asked one mum at school but she goes to a NW/H/S type church and I just can't bring myself to do it again in that type of leadership

OP posts:
webstermum · 09/02/2009 09:29

Don't feel bad. You can help him get an understanding without necessarily having to go to Church. My ds has ASD and finds Church hard to cope with but he has a childrens Bible which we read & he also goes to a kids club which is Church based but not formal in any way & is a good chance for him to learn in a non-Church environment. Is there anything like that near you? Also I have to say I'm sorry you have had such an awful experience but not all Churches are the same.

AlderTree · 09/02/2009 10:03

What sort of school does he go to? He should get the basics there and more if it is a chirch school.

Original poster
Alambil · 09/02/2009 10:06

just normal state...

webster, there's non of those types of clubs round here unfortunately

OP posts:
Niecie · 09/02/2009 10:23

A children's bible is a great idea. We been going to church in the last couple of years although mine and DH's understanding of the bible is rudimentary. However, my two DS's used to loved the bible stories from their children's bible. They have a story together every night before they go to bed for a very long while (months) they were hooked on their bible, so much so that they sound more knowledgeable than the average child at their Sunday children class. The teachers have commented on it and think DH and I are responsible which we aren't at all. A child can get the basics very well from a book of bible stories. You could start in the lead up to Easter so that your DS knows that story. (I think we started at Christmas on the pretext of reading the nativity story and it went from there).

I would agree that the more middle of the road C of E would be a great place to start going back to church. Make sure you have one with a thriving Sunday School though. Happy clappy, fringe churches can be very much about personalities which is dangerous. I think this is less the case with a more mainstream church. That is my experience anyway. Or try the Methodists. They are usually very welcoming (DH brought up a methodist and we married/had the children baptised in the methodists).

If you can bring yourself to talk to the vicar of the new church at some point then do. Remember he/she is only going to have your side of the story and they won't have your exH's lies to condend with.

amber32002 · 09/02/2009 10:52

LewisFan, I am SO sorry that your old church treated you as they did. There are newish guidelines for how any CofE church is supposed to handle DV situations, but that's not a lot of consolation to you after they've already got it wrong.

You can often tell a lot about a church from its website. If they've put some effort into being friendly and welcoming and accessible there, then there's a better chance of a friendly welcome when you turn up. But all you can do is test it out in some way. Many vicars are on email, so you could email a few and see which ones leap to help, and which are 'too busy'?

DutchOma · 09/02/2009 11:39

There is a Dutch saying that "one rotten apple in a basket puts all the good fruit to shame".

That may be true, but it is just one 'rotten aplle' that you have had for a church. Very unfortunate, but it doesn't mean that there are no 'good apples' about.
Apart from your son missing out, you are missing out yourself on fellowship.
Having said that, churches can be very challenging places and I think there is probably not one mature Christian who is always happily coping with belonging to a church.
Has your son any friends that come from a Christian family?

Clockface · 09/02/2009 11:44

Hi LewisFan!

I am not living very far from you and work for a joint Free church / Church of England church. If you fancy meeting up for a chat, I'd be more than happy, no strings attached. If nothing else, we can have a nice cuppa and commiserate over the dreadful weather here! I can't CAT people but I'm sure I can find a way to contact you if you want to.

ATB XXX

Original poster
Alambil · 09/02/2009 12:08

DutchOma, that is very true. I realise not all churches are bad but the experience I've noted is just the last in a five year battle with local church leaders - who then spread rumours and lies around their church group (you know, like a contact fellowship group thing) so our story got told wrong across the whole town...!

I know it sounds totally unbelievable, but it happened...

That's why I'm wondering whether to go to a more formalised leadership with a proper vicar and verger and then obviously a proper way to complain or discuss things with people higher up still IF there was a huge problem (the churches I've been to before have been "one man band" type leadership which IMO is exceptionally dangerous cos there's no accountability if something goes wrong)

Clockface are you in my town? the only free church I know of round here is in that group that knows the lies... so couldn't bring myself to go there

Part of me wants a new start - but, and this is going to sound ridiculous - having had a 20yr experience of pentecostal type, is a mainstream C of E with proper pews and hymns and organs and things going to suit me?

OP posts:
Clockface · 09/02/2009 12:13

Lewis Fan, I think I am in your town. DutchOma can CAT you my email address if you like. My church is not called a 'Free church' (i.e it doesn't have that in the name) and it's not pentecostal. It's an ecumenical type thingy. It is likely that you may not have heard of it!

There are some great mainstream CofE churches round here, with truly lovely clergy and people who care very deeply and would listen to you and look after you. I think, in all honesty, that that sense of being cared for in God's family is more important than stuff like the music style etc.

KayHarker · 09/02/2009 13:29

Lewisfan, just to say how really sorry I am that the church treated you like that. I have truly lost count of the testimonies I've heard about churches dealing with DV issues in appalling ways, and I consider it one of the most reprehensible stains on the church that we haven't sorted this out properly yet.

amber32002 · 09/02/2009 13:36

We're trying to get all the churches to behave well, honest.

www.cofe.anglican.org/info/papers/domesticabuse.pdf is one example. The Methodists and Baptists have their own versions.

We did a DV training day for all the CofE Dioceses very recently, so many of them have gone back with some good ideas on how they can encourage their churches to follow best practice. It's improving. But not as fast as I'd like either.

Original poster
Alambil · 09/02/2009 18:21

Well this experience was over 5 years ago now - that's how hard I was hurt... I've only JUST began to think about returning to the fold!

But as they say; many steps to walk away, only one to return - so it doesn't matter IMPO how long I've been away.

Clockface my email is freedom 6606 at hotmail dot com if you would like to get in touch... thanks

Kay, it's truly shocking how many people have been let down in various ways by churches. I guess we are really all just human after all!

OP posts:
Clockface · 09/02/2009 20:22

I have emailed you LewisFan. Let me know if you don't get my mail!

Original poster
Alambil · 09/02/2009 20:27

I have just replied.... small world!!!

OP posts:
solidgoldbullet4myvalentine · 09/02/2009 20:33

I think TBH it has a lot to do with Christianity being generally and historically a patriarchal woman-hating religion, so the more loopy and fundie the church the more they regard women as less-than-human.
However, there are Christian organisations that are supportive of women and nice places to go (not for me, obviously as there would be no point) - Mainstream CofE churches do allow women vicars etc which I think would make a difference to their attitude.
But unless your DS is showing a definite interest, don't push it too hard on his behalf. He will get a basic overview of the mythology at school, and there's time enough for him to go more deeply into it if he wants to.

Yurtgirl · 09/02/2009 20:35

Lewis - what happened to you is terrible

Im sure you would be fine in another church, even if it did have pews. Im not C of E by any means but if there was a choice between a 30 min walk to a another church or 2 mins to the C of E I would probably check out the C of E first!

Walking everywhere as we do...

Yurtgirl · 09/02/2009 20:35

Lewis - what happened to you is terrible

Im sure you would be fine in another church, even if it did have pews. Im not C of E by any means but if there was a choice between a 30 min walk to a another church or 2 mins to the C of E I would probably check out the C of E first!

Walking everywhere as we do...

Clockface · 12/02/2009 11:26

just popping back to this thread to say LewisFan if you've emailed me today or yesterday there seems to be a prob with my email account - I am not receiving emails that people have told me they've sent! Hope you're okay XXX

Original poster
Alambil · 12/02/2009 23:15

Hi Clockface - am afraid I haven't had a chance to reply yet so dont worry

Uni's got awfully hectic atm so haven't had a chance to make a sensible reply - really appreciate your offer of coming with me.

Will reply soon

OP posts:
Clockface · 13/02/2009 22:36

no worries mate!