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Original poster

May I ask a Halloween question of some christian (C of E) mumsnetters please?

88 replies

ScaryHalloweenSquonkRAAR · 09/10/2008 19:37

Dd2's school is not allowed to have a Halloween disco because it is a C of E school and tis against the tenet of the church.

Why?

I don't mean to be confrontational or start a MN bunfight, but as a non-believer, I would have thought that the whole Halloween thing would go hand in hand with there being an almighty force for good to counteract the nasty hobgoblins and the like that come out to frighten us on 31st October.

What obvious thing am I missing?

OP posts:
mabanana · 09/10/2008 20:52

Well Guy Fawkes wasn't killed for being catholic, he was killed for trying to commit an act of mass murder and religiously inspired terrorism! The celebration was of the survival of the King and Parliament. Of course there was an anti-Catholic backlash in the wake of an act of terrorism. Some of which was brutal and awful, and his torture was horrific, but it was par for the course in history.

pickupthismess · 09/10/2008 20:57

Our whole village is under the thumb of our local vicar and headmistress. They 'ban' Halloween and have an alternative 'Light' party in the church. Seems most parents comply.

I think it's disgraceful and I am going to two Halloween parties to make up for it. It's an old tradition and kids love it. I'm not saying go trick or treating at every door but to go round to your friend's houses dressed up as a ghost with a pumpkin lantern is jolly good fun.

solidgoldskullonastick · 09/10/2008 21:02

FFS! 'Hallowe'en' IS a Christian festival! It's the christian colonising of Samhain/Celtic New Year. They stuck their made-up event (All Souls Day/All Hallows) on Nov 1st and allowed the pagan natives to keep their own traditions for the night before. Just like mistletoe and decorated trees at Christmas: one of the main reasons for Christianity's survival is the way in which many of its proponents were so good at nicking existing festivals and renaming them.

solidgoldskullonastick · 09/10/2008 21:04

OH, and I'm not at all surprised that some Christians would prefer to celebrate Bonfire Night (though that's just a secondary colonisation of Samhain actually) - after all, far more fun to commemorate religious persecution than the turning of the seasons, isn't it?

bloss · 09/10/2008 21:08

Message withdrawn

bloss · 09/10/2008 21:09

Message withdrawn

pofaced · 09/10/2008 21:09

Halloween means the eve of all Hallows ie All Saints Eve... the spirits etc on Halloween are an integral part of All Saints day (& All Soul's day on 2nd Nov). All Saint's day is a Christian way of getting in on pre-Christian/ Autumn Solstice. It is an Irish/ Celtic festival brought to the US by emigrants and is no more anti-Christian than Christmas/ mid-winter festival.... the most significant Christian traditions have their origins in pre-Christian feasts

To "ban" Halloween on religious grounds shows extraordinary ignorance of the Christian Church..

I'm an Irish Catholic, btw, not a white witch/ satanist/ Sarah Palin acolyte

MortBlackCatResident · 09/10/2008 21:16

Christianity stuck All Saints / All Souls day there for a reason.

Nov 2nd also Mexican Day of the Dead btw. A very respectful celebration of lives of loved ones long gone.

bloss · 09/10/2008 21:21

Message withdrawn

BlackEyedDog · 09/10/2008 21:25

in Poland I think it's Dead Man's Day ?? A celebration of the departed.

therealsupergirl · 09/10/2008 21:47

Last Halloween I was GIVEN a bar of fairtrade chocolate by a couple of teenagers, which was wrapped up in a leaflet about upcoming local church events.

More of this type of event would be a great idea - especially in my street please

serin · 09/10/2008 22:07

I think it's a bit patronising to think that all older people hate Halloween and that most kids are out to throw eggs at your house. We live in a large village and last year Halloween was on a really warm night, nothing was 'organised' as such but pretty much the whole village was out and about and the atmosphere was that of a big street party. A lot of older people had actually filled bowls with sweets and were sat out in their gardens watching all the kids/families coming and going and there must have been a couple of hundred people at the central green, and on the play equipment.

There was a lovely community feel, lots of kids gave out sweets as well as collecting them (ours included), I think the only people who didn't have a good time were at our local CofE Church, they had an alternative light party and complained that no one went.

They will undoubtably have a bigger turn out for their ritual bonfire on 5th Nov, maybe they are 'burning' a terrorist rather than a Catholic but its hardly befitting for a Church that teaches fogiveness!

solidgoldskullonastick · 09/10/2008 22:12

BLoss, well if you don't like Halloween then you are under no obligation to celebrate it, but banning it on the grounds that it upsets your belief system is out of order. People who are not christians are under no obligation to alter their legal behaviour because some christians don't like it: christians don't get more rights than anyone else.

bloss · 09/10/2008 22:16

Message withdrawn

serin · 09/10/2008 22:21

Oh, our local CofE does have a big bonfire every year with effigies of guy Fawkes being burned, some of which are made by the kids in Sunday School, just seems a bit sick.

GentleGarotter · 09/10/2008 22:21

One of the schools that I attended banned Christmas. The headmaster was a member of the Free Church.

Elasticwoman · 09/10/2008 22:22

There was a big argument about this at the C of E my dc used to attend before we moved up north. Basically some happy clappy types who were never normally seen at school, much less ever helping to run anything or raise money for the children, came to a meeting and complained about the Halloween theme for the disco.

I said at the time that this was the first time I'd ever heard of objection to Halloween fun on the grounds of Christianity and I had been educated for 13 years by R C faith schools, + had taught R E for a short time.

I think it is very much an Evangelical Christian view, hence Irish Catholic disagreement with it from such as Pofaced. I am not Catholic any more but I agree. Nothing wrong with a good halloween disco.

By the way I was more than a little pissed off with the happy clappy contingent at that meeting, who went on to let slip how they drove their little darlings to school every morning (no one lived more than 20 mins walk away) thus showing what lazy gas guzzling oafs they were with no thought to the future of the earth.

pofaced · 09/10/2008 22:24

Of course it matters what the history is! By understanding where it came from we can understand what it is now... History teaches us about the past so we don't repeat its mistakes inthe future... a bit more historical understanding and less viewing of current situations as just being in the here and now would do us all a lot of good... credit crunch/ 1929... war in Iraq/ any dodgy unplanned unreasonable war you can think of etc

But no, I'm not saying people who want Halloween banned necessarily support the war in Iraq... but i would be interested to know sarah Palin's view on harry Potter/ Philip Pullman!

And TBH, I find the celebration of Bonfire Night in Lewes a bit offensive!

bloss · 09/10/2008 22:34

Message withdrawn

pofaced · 10/10/2008 09:14

But then do we stop celebrating Christmas because it brings out the worst excess of crass consumerism and encourages children to be greedy? Or Easter because most people think it's an excuse for over-priced chocolate and have no sense of resurrection/ Spring?

The OP was about Christians and Halloween: my point is that Halloween is the eve of All saints day and so Christian schools should be able to explain that and harness parts of commercial Halloween but reject the nasty bits. I imagine at Christmas they don't encourage children to write demanding letters to Father Christrmas but concentrate on the Nativity..

solidgoldskullonastick · 10/10/2008 10:08

It's kind of interesting to see, though, that some Christians are still at it with regard to over-riding, colonising and meddling in other people's festivals. They don't like Halloween so they make a big deal out of either stopping other people enjoying it or putting on some competing event in an effort to spoil whatever events non-Christians want to attend. I wonder how long before this particular breed of Christians start putting on Christian versions of Eid, Diwali or Yom Kippur and bleating about it.

IncontinentiaButtox · 10/10/2008 10:26

Some of us actually celebrate an entirely different festival based on our own history and not cadging someone else's with a christian fish sticker on it.

The only thing I take issue with at this time of year is my kids being assaulted with sights in shop windows that they would have to be 15 to see on a telly or cinema screen.

SaintGeorge · 10/10/2008 10:34

I am loving that SGB of all people is doing the arguing for me

nolongeraworriedmummy · 10/10/2008 10:35

We are Christian, my daughter is going to a halloween party, last she she went to a light and bright party, she is going dressed as a bat this year, last year she was a pirate lol , we dont do witches and gouls and things though and I wont allow her to go trick or treating, more because there is mainly elderley round here.

IncontinentiaButtox · 10/10/2008 10:49

StG, it's a silly argument and I don't know why it happens every sodding year. Utter stupid ignorance on the part of those that get sniffy about it, methinks. In fact, if anyone hasd a right to get sniffy about, it's the pagans whose festival has been half-inched.