Anyone up for a debate about Dawkins?

[hunkermunker]

Am reading The God Delusion.

I'm a reluctant atheist - I am intrigued by the idea that there's a God, but my logical, cynical brain scoffs at it and tells me that, as Dawkins says (and I paraphrase), monotheists have rejected all other gods - what makes them so sure their god exists?

As for god having parents, the mormons believe (or used to) that couples are reunited in heaven and go on to create universes of their own in which they are gods. Actually just god with the wife being a silent partner so to speak. The implication was that the god of this universe had a wife and presumably parents of his own.

I suppose I can cope with people reckoning there's Some Sort of Something Out There (though there's no evidence and I can't really see the point of insisting that there'must' be something out there) - what I can't get is why people are so determined to favour one set of racist, misogynistic, homophobic, irrational dumb myths over any other set of dumb myths. OK so some of the myths are to do with changing seasons, others loosely to do with certain major historical events, but they are all cluttered up with crap that only reflects the prejudices of those who started them and those who, finding their own prejudices reinforced, carried on peddling them.

As for the forbidden fruit thing I think Douglas Adams covered that.

'Your God person puts an apple tree in the middle of a garden and says do what you like guys, oh, but don't eat the apple. Surprise surprise, they eat it and he leaps out from behind a bush shouting `Gotcha'. It wouldn't have made any difference if they hadn't eaten it.

'Why not?'

'Because if you're dealing with somebody who has the sort of mentality which likes leaving hats on the pavement with bricks under them you know perfectly well they won't give up. They'll get you in the end.'

i agree with unquiet dad re dawkins - i find him much less angry and sneery than he is often portrayed. when i actually read the god delusion i found it well-argued and imbued with common sense. i actually do have a (kind of...embryonic...) faith, but it's a bit vague and still a work in progress! i have investigated christianity fairly thoroughly in recent years and have too many problems with it to take it up in earnest. though i have heard the alpha course is well worthwhile yes.

and yet i enjoy and admire dawkins' writings.

solidgold - am SO with you on your tuesday post. agree no 'must' about it at all. also agree insane to have all these man-made divisions, so often permeated with human prejudice and small-minded narrow rigidity.

ghosty - i am with you on the 'getting more out of a sunset' than a lot of hanging around drafty churches while someone proselitises (hmm think i made the spelling up for that word...) from a pulpit anyday.

i went to my first quaker meeting on sunday in the spirit of enquiry and was pleasantly surprised - it all takes place in (v welcome after my house...) SILENCE, bliss!, and it's very meditative. (i try to meditate regularly - but often fail to make the time). people do stand up to speak now and again when moved to do so. three people did while i was there and the things they said were without exception wise, profound and moving. and all talked of doubt, of the impossibility of truly KNOWING anything, as opposed to blindly believing. apparently you can be quaker and agnostic or even atheist, as well as quaker and buddhist, etc - i had no idea. might be worth a try sometime!

Just on the agnostic/atheist thing, I consider myself an agnostic atheist. That is to say I don't believe in god (a-theist, without god) but I accept that I cannot possibly know the universe and say for certain that I am right (a-gnostic without knowledge).

I find that a useful alternative to being accused of being a fundamental atheist...

You get free food on the Alpha Course. It's worth doing for that. And to ask Christians awkward questions. Of course you may feel that you can't be as awkward as you'd like because they are all being so nice and are your hosts and are feeding you. At the end of it they "challenge" you to bring someone along, and also to come to church to see what it is like. (Which rather presupposes that you haven't already done that.)